www.talkcyprus.org

brother · Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 8920 Location: London/Cyprus

I think DP should pack his bags and head to the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus for restitution of his property or compensation, you know the saying that goes "eat the bread while it is hot". :wink:

Alexios · Joined: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 976

cypezokyli wrote: it would be very interesting to see the development after the first checks are handed out.
possible scenarios : 1 . a massive attack from the media and politicians to make these people appear as traitors. that might stop the process....for a while

2 : a snowball effect, with more and more Greek Cypriots applying , with unpredicable concequences for the solution of the cyppro ...(or shoudl i say , very predictable concequences.... )

...if turkey also manages to fullfill the criteria of the ECHR , my money would go for the second one.
ofcource the possible scenarios are not 2 but 102 , but thats imo the most possible ones.

The traitor senario is already a reality.Only this morning Lazaros Mavros, alias Kolokotronis, had a report on the issue on his highly popular morning program addressed generally to the super patriotic forces of bananiots.

It is obvious that a stir will be made.We shall have to wait and see however if this will turn into a snowball or not, depending both on senario 1 above and other things. I would imagine that the first 50-100 people who apply will get an acceptable compensation but i am not sure about what will follow.Obviously there are political reasons why Turkey is pursuing this BUT where will all that money come from????
Whatever the case, this is a huge drawback on Pap's policy of trying to buy time hoping to corner Turkey...

brother · Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 8920 Location: London/Cyprus

Alexios wrote: cypezokyli wrote: it would be very interesting to see the development after the first checks are handed out.
possible scenarios : 1 . a massive attack from the media and politicians to make these people appear as traitors. that might stop the process....for a while

2 : a snowball effect, with more and more Greek Cypriots applying , with unpredicable concequences for the solution of the cyppro ...(or shoudl i say , very predictable concequences.... )

...if turkey also manages to fullfill the criteria of the ECHR , my money would go for the second one.
ofcource the possible scenarios are not 2 but 102 , but thats imo the most possible ones.

The traitor senario is already a reality.Only this morning Lazaros Mavros, alias Koloktronis, had a report on the issue on his highly popular morning program addressed generally to the super patriotic forces of bananiots.

It is obvious that a stir will be made.We shall have to wait and see however if this will turn into a snowball or not, depending both on senario 1 above and other things. I would imagine that the first 50-100 people who apply will get an acceptable compensation but i am not sure about what will follow.Obviously there are political reasons why Turkey is pursuing this BUT where will all that money come from????
Whatever the case, this is a huge drawback on Pap's policy of trying to buy time hoping to cerner Turkey...

If this works i believe the Tpap goverment will be forced to chage its own position on Turkish Cypriot land in the south as what is in place at the moment is definately a loser in any court.

cypezokyli · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 2344

http://www.politis-news.com/cgibin/hweb?-A=638145&-V=articles&-p
more or less what i was saying yesterday (in greek)

Alexios · Joined: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 976

There is something that bothers me in the Politis article. It says that in one case,a refugee was negotiating exchange of his property in the North with T/C property in the South through a "Private Agreement"
As far as i know, sale or exchange of property should be followed by the necessary proceedure in the relevant District D.L.O. so that new title deeds (kocans) are issued in the name of the rightfull owner.Without these title deeds the property itself is almost useless as it cannot be sold, developed etc.What use is to a G/C a private agreement with a T/C transferring his property in his name through a private agreement if this cannot be supported with the relevant issuance of the title deed??? All T/C property in the South belongs to the relevant authority set up to manage these properties and i very much doubt whether sush private agreements would be acceptable to the authority so that title deeds would be issued.
Perhaps it is a case where the T/C rightful owner has evidently recided outside Cyprus before 1974 in which case the legal framework provides for sale or transfer in a much easier manner.
Whatever, compensation seems to be the safest bet for G/Cs and this is the reason why G/Cs appear to prefer it according to the recent Politis publications.I would personally opt for a mixed settlement of compensation and "return" of property just in case a solution is found in the future thus, one the one hand cash in some money to alleviate atleast some financial burden most refugees face whilst on the other hand maintain a property presence in the North.
The question remains what will happen to those G/Cs who decide to apply to the Committee and come out with this form of settlement or the other.If the ECHR decides it is a lawful and just process then all may be well.If not however, these people may have to answer to the Republic of Cyprus depending on if and how much it decides to "punish" these people, an argument that came up in yesterday's Lazaros Kolokotronis program....

Alexios · Joined: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 976

Does anybody have any idea what guidelines this Committee operates under? Please dont get into political analysis.Let us assume that this committee means business.Which criteria are used for example to decide if someone should be fully compensated, have some property returned etc.....

cypezokyli · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 2344

http://www.politis-news.com/cgibin/hweb?-A=638679&-V=articles&-p

politis reporters pretented to be interested and visited the committee.
they got the impression of polite beaurocrats , who guarantee absolte secrecy.
the documents are in greek and turkish.
in case of compensation the reffugee can get a tranfer through a tird bank.
soon everything is going to be online through the commitees website.
i gues a significant point would be how they decide to deal with the aresti case.

(basides that a number of reporters in politis are also propaganding against Greek Cypriots going to that commission. even though as they say , they can understand why someone has come to such a decision)

s300 · Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:43 am Post subject:

I don't care as long as somebody gives me full compensation in a lump sum payment.

After that I don't care if the Cyprus problem is solved there is no Cyprus as far as I'm concerned.

Alexios · Joined: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 976

It's starnge s300 that in my envirnment atleast, the most ardent opposers of the Annan Plan (at the time mumbling out all sorts of super patriotic nonsense) are now the ones more willing to apply for compensation, their rationale, very similar to yours....

depurple · Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 2876 Location: Australia

Hi Brother I have already contacted the property commission and will be seeing them around October BUT I want to see what the others get first because I rather sit in the sun with a Russian women on my arm than run around chasing promises:
cheers

brother · Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 8920 Location: London/Cyprus

depurple wrote: Hi Brother I have already contacted the property commission and will be seeing them around October BUT I want to see what the others get first because I rather sit in the sun with a Russian women on my arm than run around chasing promises:
cheers

Fair enough my friend but do stay on top of it. :wink:

s300 · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:36 am Post subject:

Does the property commission have a website. Don't tell me its www.kkk.com

s300 · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:28 am Post subject:

Alexios,

What does the Annan Plan have to do with the property commission. The Property commission is obliged to follow the judicial reasoning of the ECHR-The ECHR did not propose compensation by way of "long term tradeable bonds" like the Annan Plan. The Annan plan not only would prevent refugees from returning home it would act to limit their remedies.

The only mumblings are from the handful of supporters of the plan who are slaves who will always be slaves and who's great great grand kids will only be suitable to be slaves

Alexios · Joined: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 976

The connection between The Property Commission and the Annan Plan s300, is that the relative "Law" of which i have an english translation and on which the Commission operates is itself based almost entirely on the provisions of the Annan plan (regarding property matters). It will soon be published so you can verify this yourself...

BTW, i had said long time ago, that as soon as people started applying to the Commission, the well known super patriotic forces in the South would start calling these people traitors.So, after months of criminal inactivity concerning this very serious matter the political parties in the South, suddenly woke up realizing that the Commission actually set off , appealing to people's patriotism, urging them in so many words not to apply to it.Though the government itself is at the moment very careful in its official statements, the usual suspects behind and around it, are already beginning to call applicants names....The leader of the Lybian style nationalist socialist!!!! party EDEK, his excellency Giannakis Omirou said yesterday in his usual rediculous style that these people should clearly be warned about the "illegality" of their action in "selling out" their homeland....
In this respect I agree with you..ASIKTIR...

Having said the above, the question still stands. Even if this Commission does mean business, where is all the money going to come from?? And how long will the whole process take to satisfy thousands of applications if ever these are received? There is no doubt, Turkey is simply trying to buy time over a very grave matter for her...

erolz · Joined: 11 Aug 2005 Posts: 4195 Location: Kyrenia / Girne

Alexios wrote: The connection between The Property Commission and the Annan Plan s300, is that the relative "Law" of which i have an english translation and on which the Commission operates is itself based almost entirely on the provisions of the Annan plan (regarding property matters). It will soon be published so you can verify this yourself...

Do you mean regarding the issue of if property is to be potentialy returnable or only compensatable ? For clearly in terms of compensation the comission is very different - annan plan with bonds essentialy paid for by the Greek Cypriot community (for Greek Cypriot losses and Turkish Cypriot community for Turkish Cypriot losses) vs the comission with cash settlement in full paid by Turkey. Also did not the Annan have some provisions relating for a return of 1/3 of peoples land ? Does the property comission have this 1/3 aspect in it too?

Could you scan and post the english translation of the comissions rules _ I for one would be most interested in seeing it.

Alexios wrote:
Having said the above, the question still stands. Even if this Commission does mean business, where is all the money going to come from?? And how long will the whole process take to satisfy thousands of applications if ever these are received? There is no doubt, Turkey is simply trying to buy time over a very grave matter for her...

The money is comming from the same place that money awarded for claims via the ECHR have come from. If Turkey can not afford claims made via the comission it cant afford them for claims via the ECHR either I guess ? How long would it take to satisfy the thousands of applicants via the ECHR? Would that be likely to be quicker or slower than via the property comission? Is Turkey buying time over the issue or trying to solve it once and for all - as far as it can be?