www.talkcyprus.org

Bullika · Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Posts: 3025 Location: World

erolz wrote: Ok here are my thoughts

I like the idea of setting (discussed and agreed) 'rules / guidelines' for behaviour on the forums. Not for what can be said - but for HOW it is said.

I generally support 2 - 4 as well.

2 is pretty much alreasdy in the rules as they stand now. Generally it is implement after a 'complaint' rather than proactively - but the rule is already there. What would help would be if people did not do this.

As ever however this is not as clear cut as it seems at first glance. If a posters 'style' is something I percived to be a problem, then I think I should be able to say this. This is 'personal' - its not about what they say but avout how they say it (and the consequences of such). Some people may interpet a rule that says personal abuse of others members is not allowed as meaninf personal critisim of other members is not allowed. To me these are clearly different things - but to others perhaps not.

To say 'person x' - your childish immature and attension seeking posts are not worth reading

To me would be abuse.

To say 'person x' the way you chose to post is in my opinion nearly always in a combatative style, where you simply neagte something someone else says, without any explaination and is not conducive to a fruitful debate.

To me would not be abuse but critisim (fair or not).

I think abuse should be prsocribed by the rule. Critisim should not per se - but when it is made every effort should be made to not cross the 'line'.

3 - I would be happy to see all swear words banned myself (by consetual agreement of members - not by fiat). But I am also not that bothered by them either. I use them in the real world occasionaly. Personally I try to avoide them in text.

4 - I totaly agree with. It is already pretty much the 'unwritten' rules for how things _should_ be dealt with (though frequently are not) but I think this one most definately should be 'formalised' along with some specific prohibition on 'back seat moderation' (a common 'no no' on many forums in my experience).

One other 'behaviour guide' I think we should also consider is something along the lines

'do not posts replies that simply say "great post" - or similar. If you wish to complement a poster then do so via PM and not in public'

On the general issue of 'freedom of speech' my view is that in society at large it should be absolute and defended as such.
On online forums like these however I recognise the 'fragile' nature of such virtual communites, and how easy it is for a sinlge indivdual or very very small minorites to undermine and actualy destroy such a community under the protection of 'freedom of speech'.

To give an extreme example. A given poster could simply reply to every post with 'Cyprus is Greek' or 'Cyprus is Turkish'. I do not beleive that someone behaving in this way has an absolute right to do this on a forum like this (like I believe they would have an absolute right to stand outside and embassy every day and shout 'Cyprus is X')

Those are my thoughts.

I really do hope more memebers contribute to this discussion on from it we can untleimately and collectively AGREE a set of guideline behaviour based rules for the forum.

I look forward to hearing from as many members as possible on this issue.

I think you all misunderstood 1. Perhaps i wasnt clear, I meant within the forum. By conspiracy I mean an attempt by a user to defame or blacken the name of another member by claiming that they are X working for X, in the name of X

I defend my reasons for putting 1 there on the list as I am a little tired of reading posts that openly challenge other members by trying to claim that X is two-faced or a seedy little troll in disguise, conspiring to ruin the forum, without producing names and later nominating those people for a forum referendum on eviction. This is unacceptable for me even though I wasnt the one who was targeted on this occasion.

depurple · Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 2876 Location: Australia

Bullika you are right there should be not direct criticism only ask for facts and straight answers:
Criticizing our owns co partners on this forum and then saying we want to work together to solve the Cyprus problem is hypocritical:
We should just COOL IT and get down to solid foundation work and not rip into people: This rip into is exactly what our fathers and forefathers did:
Find examples the young man WHO climbed the Flag pole to take down the flag some called him hero Some called him Marlaka!
But the truth is he believe in what he did and he was entitled to do what he thought was correct in a democracy: Freedom of expression but he paid the price with his life: But the EU will be the judge on his actions NOT US: They will one day open the case and deal with this: So we must just work as a team to find a solution to the Cyprus issue me as a Greek Cypriot background knowing what we CG did to the Turkish Cypriot and knowing what we want for a just solution and other Turkish Cypriot doing the same:
We CAN mediate better than our representatives in Power:
BUT attacking each other over trivial things is WRONG:
Also say we are right you are wrong is WRONG again:
So cut out the insults and get down to Earth don't we say we are smarter than our Elders well lets prove IT!Get rid of the past and look at the future:

Xenos 2Fan · Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject:

I appreciate the fact that this forum was constructed upon democratic principles and I want it to continue on this path. I believe that most forum members here are old enough to moderate themselves and think that they do a pretty good job in this regard.

Conspiracy theories such as Momo mentioned a few rare here so I don't really think that this is a problem.

Curse words are a part of life and as long as they are not directed at a person in anger or spite should be allowed as long as it does not get out of hand. If it does, we always have the blue card option.

Insults: I try (believe it or not) not to insult people or their beliefs on this forum unless they are complete and utter moron. The vast majority of members here operate in a manner of mutual respect. However, there is a minority that seems to get a kick out of insulting other members either directly or indirectly. This I find extremely annoying. Unless we figure out a way to deal with people like this in swift manner, some of us, will respond in the same tone. THIS IS THE ONLY PROBLEM ON THIS FORUM. If someone insults me or my beliefs I am going to have a thing or two to say to this person unless, again, Erol and the rest of the moderators find a swift way of dealing with these kinds of people/trolls. I love a good debate but I hate insults. The rest I can deal with. I don't want to have to double check my posts to see if they are up to forum standards. Most of the time they are.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

Crash Test Dummy · Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 4911 Location: London(ish)

we should give out stickers like these

respiridus · Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject:

First, I would like to apologize for the one incident in which I insulted a fellow forum member. This is the case where I said "are you serious or just plain Turkish". This was unacceptable of me. I don't believe that I have personally attacked anybody else, except in a couple of cases when a person attacked or insulted me first. Even in those cases I tried to be moderate about it.

Second, I would like to ask the other forum members who have made personal assaults and/or insults against fellow members (either in public or in private) to also apologize. You know who you are.

Third, I would like to answer this statement, made by Tufan:

Quote: If someone insults me or my beliefs I am going to have a thing or two to say to this person unless, again, Erol and the rest of the moderators find a swift way of dealing with these kinds of people/trolls. I love a good debate but I hate insults.

Attacking someone's beliefs is common practice in democratic dialog. And even if it wasn't, I simply don't know what your beliefs are in order to be careful not to insult them. For example, let's assume that I say "Turkish generals are just a bunch of stupid dictators". I have recently discovered that this is a great insult for a Turkish ideals. But, just a few days ago, I had no idea about this. Generals in Greece and Cyprus are just overpaid government officials, most of them bad ones to begin with.

Finally, I'd like to ask Tufan and Kifeas whether they want us to go ahead with that voting thing.

Bullika · Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Posts: 3025 Location: World

respiridus wrote: First, I would like to apologize for the one incident in which I insulted a fellow forum member. This is the case where I said "are you serious or just plain Turkish". This was unacceptable of me. I don't believe that I have personally attacked anybody else, except in a couple of cases when a person attacked or insulted me first. Even in those cases I tried to be moderate about it.

Second, I would like to ask the other forum members who have made personal assaults and/or insults against fellow members (either in public or in private) to also apologize. You know who you are.

Third, I would like to answer this statement, made by Tufan:

Quote: If someone insults me or my beliefs I am going to have a thing or two to say to this person unless, again, Erol and the rest of the moderators find a swift way of dealing with these kinds of people/trolls. I love a good debate but I hate insults.

Attacking someone's beliefs is common practice in democratic dialog. And even if it wasn't, I simply don't know what your beliefs are in order to be careful not to insult them. For example, let's assume that I say "Turkish generals are just a bunch of stupid dictators". I have recently discovered that this is a great insult for a Turkish ideals. But, just a few days ago, I had no idea about this. Generals in Greece and Cyprus are just overpaid government officials, most of them bad ones to begin with.

Finally, I'd like to ask Tufan and Kifeas whether they want us to go ahead with that voting thing.

Why do want this vote to go ahead?

respiridus · Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject:

Quote: Why do want this vote to go ahead?

I don't. I'm just asking what they want. If they want to forgive and forget, fine by me. If they want to go ahead with the voting, OK.

Xenos 2Fan · Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject:

Quote: Attacking someone's beliefs is common practice in democratic dialog. And even if it wasn't, I simply don't know what your beliefs are in order to be careful not to insult them. For example, let's assume that I say "Turkish generals are just a bunch of stupid dictators". I have recently discovered that this is a great insult for a Turkish ideals. But, just a few days ago, I had no idea about this. Generals in Greece and Cyprus are just overpaid government officials, most of them bad ones to begin with.

Finally, I'd like to ask Tufan and Kifeas whether they want us to go ahead with that voting thing. [/quote]

This will be my last post to you Respiridus.

There is a huge difference in questioning someone else's beliefs and attacking them. This is the essence of civilised debate.

As far as the vote is concerned I believe it would be an exercise in futility and an utter waste of time to prove a silly point that would not benefit this forum.

cypezokyli · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 2344

i would agree with tufan and kahn s KISS rule.

i dot mind swear words. not to mention at times i like them. they are part of the language.

i completely agree that they shouldnot be used against others. up to now i tried not to use them, and not to reply to them.
but that exists already as a rule as far as i am concerned. therefore whats the big fass?

i dont see a rule gap in this forum.
do you people believe that we do have one?

i really didnot get what you people what to vote about!!! did i miss sth hear?

cannedmoose · Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:40 am Post subject:

cypezokyli wrote: i would agree with tufan and kahn s KISS rule.

i dot mind swear words. not to mention at times i like them. they are part of the language.

i completely agree that they shouldnot be used against others. up to now i tried not to use them, and not to reply to them.
but that exists already as a rule as far as i am concerned. therefore whats the big fass?

i dont see a rule gap in this forum.
do you people believe that we do have one?

i really didnot get what you people what to vote about!!! did i miss sth hear?

I also agree with these guidelines. Cyp, as for this supposed 'vote', it's a demand that a particular individual has made and which has been either universally ignored or condemned. In other words, not worth worrying about.

respiridus · Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject:

Quote: i really didnot get what you people what to vote about!!! did i miss sth hear?

Erol suggested that we put a vote on whether someone should be kicked out of the forum. Me, Kifeas, and Xenos2Fan responded that they wouldn't have a problem with this, initially. As we can see in this thread, however, this is begining to change, so I'm shelving the idea for the moment. Not a good one to begin with...

Quote: This will be my last post to you Respiridus.

It's your right to do this. Actually (and I have also said this to someone else), it's better to not to talk to me rathern than personally assault me, therefore I welcome your move.

erolz · Joined: 11 Aug 2005 Posts: 4195 Location: Kyrenia / Girne

respiridus wrote: Erol suggested that we put a vote on whether someone should be kicked out of the forum.

No I asked if that was what you wanted. I did not say that is what we would do or should do. I hope that is clear now.

Can we please keep on topic in this thread. It is about 'proposed behaivour guildlines / rules'.

boomerang · Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 1133 Location: Melbourne

I ain't commenting because I want to reserve the right :twisted:

:lol: :lol:

city · Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 3370 Location: Larnaca area

cannedmoose wrote: cypezokyli wrote: i would agree with tufan and kahn s KISS rule.

i dot mind swear words. not to mention at times i like them. they are part of the language.

i completely agree that they shouldnot be used against others. up to now i tried not to use them, and not to reply to them.
but that exists already as a rule as far as i am concerned. therefore whats the big fass?

i dont see a rule gap in this forum.
do you people believe that we do have one?

i really didnot get what you people what to vote about!!! did i miss sth hear?

I also agree with these guidelines.

I also agree. Its close to impossible to specify that more exactly. Either its clear what it means to be polite and respectful towards others or its not. If its not clear to someone then a rule won't help it anyway.

repulsewarrior · Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 1742 Location: Canada

I too believe that the forum requires little more than simple respect, one for the other. I do not like the generalisations which sometimes are used to bring home a particular point of view, as though the comment of one person is the sentiment of a whole group. People loose their tempers, and I have seen that the other participants in this forum have worked together to keep a dialogue going regardless. This is most encouraging and allows for learning and sober second thoughts.

As for swearing, where it is a part of reasoned thinking, I have no problem with it, but abuse is abuse, and I think the forum members will support a rational discussion, as has been done in the past, with careful admonishment against any form of intolerance or hurtfulness. As a last resort, I think we all know that the administration of this forum can, and will, control discussion so that it can continue to be a means of exchange.

Also, we do not live in a bubble, and the forum is open to the whole world. Therefore, it is important for all of us to promote in our efforts, a decorum which lends credibility to our concern, encouraging respect and esteem in others who may have no immediate interest in our particular cause, but who will admire our efforts to debate the issues, exchange information, and our desire to resolve the impasse.