www.talkcyprus.org

[Bullika]

Check latest website where you can learn Gibrizlija http://zizziro.tripod.com/gbrzldjadirekt/index.html

[garbitsch]

Hehe you are serious about this Gibrizlidja thing re :D great success but still it irritates me a bit to see it as a different language :?

[Dhavlos]

actually...ive noticed a lot of words are same/similar to greek/cypgreek....

eg, fanella, batatez, botiri, kapella, gabira, golo etc...

[cypezokyli]

and its amazing that some of these words we have the same as the Turkish Cypriot , and the greeks use the same as the turks

[Bullika]

cypezokyli wrote: and its amazing that some of these words we have the same as the Turkish Cypriot , and the greeks use the same as the turks

its normal when you live with one another for 500 years.

i mean take gocagari, its origin is clearly turkish, then take bulli its origin is clearly greek. its not a case of we took from you, rather we borrowed words from one another.

[brother]

Bullika wrote: cypezokyli wrote: and its amazing that some of these words we have the same as the Turkish Cypriot , and the greeks use the same as the turks

its normal when you live with one another for 500 years.

i mean take gocagari, its origin is clearly turkish, then take bulli its origin is clearly greek. its not a case of we took from you, rather we borrowed words from one another.


I see it as we assimilated each others words to create a very unique dialect that had 1974 never occured we would right now be talking a language that would have been a cross of Turkish and Greek.

[Dhavlos]

most likely bro, most likely! :D

one day...it may start again ...fingers crossed

[Bullika]

brother wrote: Bullika wrote: cypezokyli wrote: and its amazing that some of these words we have the same as the Turkish Cypriot , and the greeks use the same as the turks

its normal when you live with one another for 500 years.

i mean take gocagari, its origin is clearly turkish, then take bulli its origin is clearly greek. its not a case of we took from you, rather we borrowed words from one another.


I see it as we assimilated each others words to create a very unique dialect that had 1974 never occured we would right now be talking a language that would have been a cross of Turkish and Greek.

yes possibly bruv, but those days are over now and i m sad to say reunification is a far off dream. what we should be thinking about is improving our lot, our economy, by insisting on direct flights and trade. this is better long term.

Turkish cypriots can be their own worst ennemy at times. look for instance at the opposition and criticism i got for pointing out that gibrizlija as a dialect is also a language. basic knowledge of linguistics, i.e the meaning of the word dialect and language and the relationship between the two do not quite fit into peoples nationalist ideals, so like mete they present their gutt reaction, and without thinking things through logically.
if you read what he says, we Londrali" turkish-cypriots dont speak or have any right to claim to speak the turkish-cypriot dialect otherwise known as gibrizlija.

i must be speaking chinese then, what language do you speak at home brother?

[Dhavlos]

what i think mete is saying is that londrali turkish cant be considered a language...and what you see as 'kibrizlija' is in fact a mix between londrali turkish and kibrizlija....

i do it at home...i say im speaking cypriot, when infact, the words i use are used soley by london cypriots...like words 'ketlo' meaning kettle.... cypriots dont use it...but london cypriots do...

also, kibrizlija as a seperate language...somehow..i dont think so, i think you arguements are going round in circles...if you can find 'proper' scholars/linguists who agree with you, then i may be inclined to accept what you are saying...otherwise, your just sounding like a madman!

[Bullika]

Dhavlos wrote: what i think mete is saying is that londrali turkish cant be considered a language...and what you see as 'kibrizlija' is in fact a mix between londrali turkish and kibrizlija....

i do it at home...i say im speaking cypriot, when infact, the words i use are used soley by london cypriots...like words 'ketlo' meaning kettle.... cypriots dont use it...but london cypriots do...

also, kibrizlija as a seperate language...somehow..i dont think so, i think you arguements are going round in circles...if you can find 'proper' scholars/linguists who agree with you, then i may be inclined to accept what you are saying...otherwise, your just sounding like a madman!

If most Turkish Cypriots in the world speak like this, then that is the language of most Turkish Cypriots. understand??
it matters not if they are in london or nicosia or Dar Es Salaam!

As for Mete's argument, I disagree that people in Cyprus speak different to us, as there are many Turkish Cypriots who return to Cyprus from the diaspora and constant interraction between the two. Contrary to his belief, the diaspora plays a very important role in Turkish Cypriot language, politics, economy and cultural heritage.

Every time I am in Cyprus there are people from Australia, Britain and Canada who have returned, opened businesses and there are many English schools there and many more Turkish Cypriots who have spent time in England.

I have presented some good sound arguments based on what I have learnt in general linguistics, at university, based on my knowledge from books, articles supported by my inextinguishable interest in Turkish Cypriot language. I havent started my PhD yet but I think its absurd to wait until I ve been given this title of Dr before I can be taken seriously.

I think its absurd to treat people this way, disregard what they say as Bul.%$T because they dont have a title of Dr infront of their name. There seems to be this paradogm in your head that unless you have a PhD, regardless of the subject you researched or your interest, that you cannot be taken seriously. I find this most bizarre, does that mean that none of us can hold opinions on anything? Do you have a PhD on any subject? Is a PhD a licence to open ones mouth? How about Mete does he have a PhD, why do you adopt his line of thinking and not mine?

Even so, if thats what it takes then I will have to wait until I am Dr Mehmet in 2010 before you take note of my points. As or my arguments if actually bother to read them (it will involve having an interest) then you would see that I am not going around in circles, I have been raising the same point consistently from the beginning but people like have just failed to understand the point through your own ignoirance and lack of understanding what terms like dialect mean.

I am not a madman and i dont care for the remark. quite frankly i never expected to hear these words from you, maybe from others but not you. I have always got on well with you and liked you but i find this insulting and hurtful. I feel it is a personal attack on me that people like Mete would cheer to and have a laugh at my expense.

[brother]

Bullika wrote: brother wrote: Bullika wrote: cypezokyli wrote: and its amazing that some of these words we have the same as the Turkish Cypriot , and the greeks use the same as the turks

its normal when you live with one another for 500 years.

i mean take gocagari, its origin is clearly turkish, then take bulli its origin is clearly greek. its not a case of we took from you, rather we borrowed words from one another.


I see it as we assimilated each others words to create a very unique dialect that had 1974 never occured we would right now be talking a language that would have been a cross of Turkish and Greek.

yes possibly bruv, but those days are over now and i m sad to say reunification is a far off dream. what we should be thinking about is improving our lot, our economy, by insisting on direct flights and trade. this is better long term.

Turkish cypriots can be their own worst ennemy at times. look for instance at the opposition and criticism i got for pointing out that gibrizlija as a dialect is also a language. basic knowledge of linguistics, i.e the meaning of the word dialect and language and the relationship between the two do not quite fit into peoples nationalist ideals, so like mete they present their gutt reaction, and without thinking things through logically.
if you read what he says, we Londrali" turkish-cypriots dont speak or have any right to claim to speak the turkish-cypriot dialect otherwise known as gibrizlija.

i must be speaking chinese then, what language do you speak at home brother?

My wife is Turkish Cypriot and hence we speak gibislica but as she grew up in Cyprus has the ability to speak like a modern Turk from Turkey but i only spent around 6 years in Cyprus and hence i speak proper gibrislica but can also speak proper Turkish but not as well as my wife does.

This said i have to dissagree with mete on that point where the London Turkish Cypriot do mix English with Turkish Cypriot dialect we very rarely manage to transfer it over to the Turkish Cypriot in Cyprus but instead divert back to our original speaking of gibislica.

[Dhavlos]

Bullika wrote: As for Mete's argument, I disagree that people in Cyprus speak different to us, as there are many Turkish Cypriots who return to Cyprus from the diaspora and constant interraction between the two. Contrary to his belief, the diaspora plays a very important role in Turkish Cypriot language, politics, economy and cultural heritage.

i think it is the way ive compared the Greek Cypriot community in london to the Turkish Cypriot community which is where we differ....im thinking that the Turkish Cypriot community is a mirror of the Greek Cypriot community, but as far as i know...the Greek Cypriot community in london is different to that of cyprus (so i have accidentally assumed that the Turkish Cypriot community is the same...the Greek Cypriot london community hasnt got as much influence in the cypriot-cypriot community, unlike the Turkish Cypriots, it seems- my bad)


Quote: I have presented some good sound arguments based on what I have learnt in general linguistics, at university, based on my knowledge from books, articles supported by my inextinguishable interest in Turkish Cypriot language. I havent started my PhD yet but I think its absurd to wait until I ve been given this title of Dr before I can be taken seriously.
im not saying that..im just looking for people that could back your view, any articles, in newspapers at least, that also argue kibrislija is a seperate language. -After all, we ask for it in the cyprob section dont we? ;)

Quote: I think its absurd to treat people this way, disregard what they say as Bul.%$T because they dont have a title of Dr infront of their name. There seems to be this paradogm in your head that unless you have a PhD, regardless of the subject you researched or your interest, that you cannot be taken seriously. I find this most bizarre, does that mean that none of us can hold opinions on anything? Do you have a PhD on any subject? Is a PhD a licence to open ones mouth? How about Mete does he have a PhD, why do you adopt his line of thinking and not mine?

Even so, if thats what it takes then I will have to wait until I am Dr Mehmet in 2010 before you take note of my points. As or my arguments if actually bother to read them (it will involve having an interest) then you would see that I am not going around in circles, I have been raising the same point consistently from the beginning but people like have just failed to understand the point through your own ignoirance and lack of understanding what terms like dialect mean.

I am not a madman and i dont care for the remark. quite frankly i never expected to hear these words from you, maybe from others but not you. I have always got on well with you and liked you but i find this insulting and hurtful. I feel it is a personal attack on me that people like Mete would cheer to and have a laugh at my expense.

Please, dont take offense to what i have said...when i said 'madman' ...it was not suppost to be taken so seriously...just with a pinch of salt/jokingly(sorry, british sense of humour). Is should have put a wink or smile so you knew...sorry. :flowers: :flowers:

Mehmet im sorry if i have really offended you, that was not my point...im just saying, that other than what you say, i have no evidence infront of me from 'other' people (be they scholar/journalist/randomers).

When i hear you say kibrislija, my immediate comparison in cypriot-greek, which i dont think is a 'seperate' language in its own right...so that my be why im so 'hostile' to the view you hold. In my eyes, cypriot greek, is somewhat of an extension of greek, but is not a seperate language in its own right, so i see kibrislija that way...be me wrong or not.

(PS, isnt raising the same point and then people consistantly rejecting it going round in circles ? ;) )

-mehmet...rememeber , we are stubborn cypriots- we both are right ;) lol... :lol: :lol:

[Bullika]

Dhavlos wrote: Bullika wrote: As for Mete's argument, I disagree that people in Cyprus speak different to us, as there are many Turkish Cypriots who return to Cyprus from the diaspora and constant interraction between the two. Contrary to his belief, the diaspora plays a very important role in Turkish Cypriot language, politics, economy and cultural heritage.

i think it is the way ive compared the Greek Cypriot community in london to the Turkish Cypriot community which is where we differ....im thinking that the Turkish Cypriot community is a mirror of the Greek Cypriot community, but as far as i know...the Greek Cypriot community in london is different to that of cyprus (so i have accidentally assumed that the Turkish Cypriot community is the same...the Greek Cypriot london community hasnt got as much influence in the cypriot-cypriot community, unlike the Turkish Cypriots, it seems- my bad)


Quote: I have presented some good sound arguments based on what I have learnt in general linguistics, at university, based on my knowledge from books, articles supported by my inextinguishable interest in Turkish Cypriot language. I havent started my PhD yet but I think its absurd to wait until I ve been given this title of Dr before I can be taken seriously.
im not saying that..im just looking for people that could back your view, any articles, in newspapers at least, that also argue kibrislija is a seperate language. -After all, we ask for it in the cyprob section dont we? ;)

Quote: I think its absurd to treat people this way, disregard what they say as Bul.%$T because they dont have a title of Dr infront of their name. There seems to be this paradogm in your head that unless you have a PhD, regardless of the subject you researched or your interest, that you cannot be taken seriously. I find this most bizarre, does that mean that none of us can hold opinions on anything? Do you have a PhD on any subject? Is a PhD a licence to open ones mouth? How about Mete does he have a PhD, why do you adopt his line of thinking and not mine?

Even so, if thats what it takes then I will have to wait until I am Dr Mehmet in 2010 before you take note of my points. As or my arguments if actually bother to read them (it will involve having an interest) then you would see that I am not going around in circles, I have been raising the same point consistently from the beginning but people like have just failed to understand the point through your own ignoirance and lack of understanding what terms like dialect mean.

I am not a madman and i dont care for the remark. quite frankly i never expected to hear these words from you, maybe from others but not you. I have always got on well with you and liked you but i find this insulting and hurtful. I feel it is a personal attack on me that people like Mete would cheer to and have a laugh at my expense.

Please, dont take offense to what i have said...when i said 'madman' ...it was not suppost to be taken so seriously...just with a pinch of salt/jokingly(sorry, british sense of humour). Is should have put a wink or smile so you knew...sorry. :flowers: :flowers:

Mehmet im sorry if i have really offended you, that was not my point...im just saying, that other than what you say, i have no evidence infront of me from 'other' people (be they scholar/journalist/randomers).

When i hear you say kibrislija, my immediate comparison in cypriot-greek, which i dont think is a 'seperate' language in its own right...so that my be why im so 'hostile' to the view you hold. In my eyes, cypriot greek, is somewhat of an extension of greek, but is not a seperate language in its own right, so i see kibrislija that way...be me wrong or not.

(PS, isnt raising the same point and then people consistantly rejecting it going round in circles ? ;) )

-mehmet...rememeber , we are stubborn cypriots- we both are right ;) lol... :lol: :lol:

Part of the campaign by the former opposition party in Cyprus CTP, was a big placard "YES BE ANNEM", these words were those of the Turkish Cypriot youth in Cyprus. Such examples of English appearing into Cyprus Turkish (Gibrizlija) were followed by the front page of the Yeni Duzen newspaper that said "YES BE", also it is common for nearly all Turkish Cypriots to knew English, therefore any English influences are not necessarily from the diaspora but from the connection and past people in Cyprus have with Bruitain and other English speaking countries.

There are very few articles on Gibrizlija or Kibrislica not because it doesnt exist as some would have us believe but because we are talking about a very small community where interest in it is very low and infaact there is still a lot of stigma attached to speaking it. There are enough Turkish Cypriots who feel ashamed of Cyprus Turkish and want to lose it. The fact that we had a Turkish nationalist Denktash govt in power for 30 years aided this process and prevented any study into Kibrislica that would deviate from their accepted nationalist ideals. But now there is a little more hope as Talat is not a nationalist and is generally more open to things Cypriot.

Lastly among linguists and Turkologists there is little interest for Turkic languages like Uzbek or Kazakh that are spoken by millions so why would anybody care about Gibrizlija.

No worries Dhavlos, its ok, I just hate it when people from Cyprus tell us diaspora Turkish Cypriots that we dont speak Gibrizlija or that we speak "bad" turkish. I find it really annoying.

[Dhavlos]

Quote: No worries Dhavlos, its ok, I just hate it when people from Cyprus tell us diaspora Turkish Cypriots that we dont speak Gibrizlija or that we speak "bad" turkish. I find it really annoying.

re, im a Greek Cypriot diaspora person too...i know what it is like to be told im not speaking properly, and for them to laugh in your face :( .... however, i think that it is kinda 'special' that i speak the 'old-style' language that many Greek Cypriots in cyprus see as backward/uneducated and old fashioned.

You never know...in years to come, you may be 'hot-property' for your linguistic skills in kibrizlija ;) in a united cyprus :D

[Bullika]

Dhavlos wrote: Quote: No worries Dhavlos, its ok, I just hate it when people from Cyprus tell us diaspora Turkish Cypriots that we dont speak Gibrizlija or that we speak "bad" turkish. I find it really annoying.

re, im a Greek Cypriot diaspora person too...i know what it is like to be told im not speaking properly, and for them to laugh in your face :( .... however, i think that it is kinda 'special' that i speak the 'old-style' language that many Greek Cypriots in cyprus see as backward/uneducated and old fashioned.

You never know...in years to come, you may be 'hot-property' for your linguistic skills in kibrizlija ;) in a united cyprus :D

in the north it goes further, it is part of a political struggle to win back our country, identity and culture. language is apart of that culture. talat used to head this campaign i think he still does, but sometimes i m not sure.