www.talkcyprus.org

[Dhavlos]

OK, so lets get it started!!!

What do people see as a solution for cyprus...this often get very complicated and be a source of confusion when people discuss things.

Just short answers please, just want to quickly establish what people beleive are solutions.


If possible we may take a poll on respective outlines for solutions in the future.

[Dhavlos]

I believe in a multi-zonal State, somewhere between a federation and devolution.

In my solution, there would be sizable areas (10-15ish councils/districts) of administration of mainly Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots populations, with control over things like: health/socail work, local govt, housing/infrastructure/development, justice/police, agriculture/fisheries, tourism/sport/culture. Representatives/councillors would be elected here in a one-man,one-vote, and there would be no special voting techniques, just proportional representation and 51% of the vote would be needed to approve something.

The main government would have power over issues such as: economy/taxation, defense, immigration, Social security, foreign affairs, constitution, education etc.. and would have elected deputies in proportion to population, but each community would have to vote for a law for it to be approved (i think that is what 'political equality' is).

The Prime minister would be head of government, but the President would be head of state, like the queens/PMs role in the UK.

[erolz]

For me 'poltical equality' means that any decision (local, regional or federal) that affects one community differently to the other should require the seperate consent of each community. Any decision that affects the two communites equally should not require such seperate consent.

For me if this form of 'poltical equality' is accepted and protected then I have few other 'requirments' as red lines.

[Crash Test Dummy]

divide the country into states. Larnaka, Nicosia etc. each state would run itself and have a central government to decide major affairs.

all land should be returned back to its rightful owners. as greeks are the majority by a long way greek would be the main language with english and turkish also being taught.

[Crash Test Dummy]

wrote this in the wrong section. great way to start my time in the new forum.

[erolz]

Giorgio wrote: how come it has takent hem so long? troops walk up and down there 24/7. surprised they were not removed when NATO moved in. truly shocking :shock: :shock: :shock:

sorry georgio but I am not sure what your are referring to?

[Dhavlos]

Giorgio wrote: divide the country into states. Larnaka, Nicosia etc. each state would run itself and have a central government to decide major affairs.


This is what i broadly agree, but less independant states, and divided up so that Turkish Cypriots have got areas which are predominantly Turkish Cypriot, so that they are not always the minority in power, if you see what i mean.

Quote: all land should be returned back to its rightful owners.

completely agree


Quote: as greeks are the majority by a long way greek would be the main language with english and turkish also being taught.

not really agree, but i understand the reasoning. I think that in schools/governemnt, the langauge used should be english, so that mixed-community schools could exist (as well as increasing greatly the literacy in english, raising economic prospects), with Greek and Turkish taught as well(not sure how much though).
in Kenya they teach in english, which seems to work.

[Crash Test Dummy]

explain how loosing both greek and turkish will help?

unless Dav (your new nick-name unless you have objections) english is the main language as either greek or turkish as a second language.

Eg. if your greek your family will teach you greek, school will teach you english and you can learn simple turkish as a second language.

[Dhavlos]

what do you mean by loosing greek/turksih? i dont understand what your asking.

what i mean is that in schools, all lessons should be taught in english, and that greek would be taught as a second language to those who dont speak it at home and turkish would be taught as a second language to those who dont speak it at home. however if a child speaks greek/turkish at home, then they would learn that language in the literature-sense(rather than as a foreigning language).

im not saying we should ignore greek/turkish, but so as to reduce division/conflicts of interest etc.. that pupils should be taught in a neutral language, which at least would help them in the future.
Not to say that Greek or Turkish arent important, but it would be easier to get a Greek Cypriot child to have subjects taught in english without complaint, then to get them to have subjects taught in turkish, and vis-versa(if they went to a school which had both Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots in it)...do you see where im going?

[Crash Test Dummy]

Dhavlos wrote: what do you mean by loosing greek/turksih? i dont understand what your asking.

what i mean is that in schools, all lessons should be taught in english, and that greek would be taught as a second language to those who dont speak it at home and turkish would be taught as a second language to those who dont speak it at home. however if a child speaks greek/turkish at home, then they would learn that language in the literature-sense(rather than as a foreigning language).

im not saying we should ignore greek/turkish, but so as to reduce division/conflicts of interest etc.. that pupils should be taught in a neutral language, which at least would help them in the future.
Not to say that Greek or Turkish arent important, but it would be easier to get a Greek Cypriot child to have subjects taught in english without complaint, then to get them to have subjects taught in turkish, and vis-versa(if they went to a school which had both Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots in it)...do you see where im going?


this is what i was trying to get at but you explained it much clearer. eventually the school kids will create a turkish-greek/greek-turksih slang that they will use to communicate. this will not be good educationally but will do wonders for the island

[Bananiot]

Lets not get wild about the solution we are proposing. Remember, the solution nedds to be approved by both communities. Thus, any suggestions need to be pragmatic and realistic enough to be supported by serious functions of both communities. Otherwise we will be talking of a solution for many years to come when partition will have been cemented. Most important, the solution needs to take into account the recent history of the island, probably starting from 1950.

In my opinion the Greek Cypriot side should agree for political equality of the two communities (I stress, communities, not individuals) in return for land, repatriation of a large chunk of settlers, guarantees for the implementation of the agreements and an agreed solution to the issue of guarantors. The EU could be getting involved here but I am always sceptical as the amount of involvement the EU can have since it is the policy of the EU not to get involved in issues faced by member countries.

[Dhavlos]

Bananiot wrote: In my opinion the Greek Cypriot side should agree for political equality of the two communities (I stress, communities, not individuals) in return for land, repatriation of a large chunk of settlers, guarantees for the implementation of the agreements and an agreed solution to the issue of guarantors. The EU could be getting involved here but I am always sceptical as the amount of involvement the EU can have since it is the policy of the EU not to get involved in issues faced by member countries.

when you say 'in return for' do you mean that in the sense of still having two 'constituent states', or a unitary state, or like what ive suggested, a multi-zonal state?

I know we've drifted from the subject title a little, so what is the type of solution you would like to see?

[Crash Test Dummy]

sorry equal power is not fair. how can 18% of the population control 50% of the votes. soem democracy that will be.

[erolz]

Giorgio wrote: sorry equal power is not fair. how can 18% of the population control 50% of the votes. soem democracy that will be.

Would you agree to political equality of the two communites (or component states) on some things but not all things?

From a Turkish Cypriot perspective simple one person one vote on everything to us is the same as saying if there are ever any issues that divide totaly, or near totaly on ethnic lines (like many of the core issues did historicaly in cyprus - enosis and others), then the Greek Cypriot community always get's its will and the Turkish Cypriot community always has the Greek Cypriot will imposed upon it. That's somthing we find hard to accept.

[Bananiot]

There will be two zones, this much we accepted and we have placed our signuture to this effect (Makarios and Kyprianou). A BBF with the Turkish Cypriot community controlling about 25% of the land and solely responsible for their day to day matters. The two zones will be under an umbrella, that of the United Cyprus, so we are talking of one sovereign country comprising of two zones bonded in Federation, albeit, a somewhat loose Federation and this is an example of what I mean when saying that history needs to be taken into account. Before 1974 we couldn't accept geographical Federation, it was an anathema to us (perhaps rightly) but after 1974 things changed radically, so did any possible solutions.