www.talkcyprus.org

[city]

Erol, I hope you have a few more Cypriots taking part in tomorrows effort. Its a shame really.

Wishing you a successful day anyway!

[andytandreou]

whats all this cemetary clean up business? can someone explain which cemetary they are going to clean up and where? oh, and why?

[Dhavlos]

PM Erol and he'll give you the details....basically its cleaning up a Greek Cypriot cemetary in the north by people, set up by erol...this is the third time.

[erolz]

andytandreou wrote: whats all this cemetary clean up business? can someone explain which cemetary they are going to clean up and where? oh, and why?

The report on the first effort should make it pretty clear

http://www.talkcyprus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=619

If you have any other questions just ask (but read through that thread above first :) )

[erolz]

Hi just a very quick 'report' on the third cemetary clean up effort. I will do piccies and stuff tommorow some time.

We had glorious weather for the day. The Ususal suspects turned up, with a smattering of Greek Cypriots the odd Turkish Cypriot and a bulk of english expats from north. Around 18 people in all I think.

We again got a good amount cleared. Also most people wanted to keep going for next month, where as I was considereing having a 'winter break' so weather permitting we are on for aother effort on 11th Dec. We have pretty much done one whole side of the cemetary, which is maybe 60% of the total area and the next effort will focus on the last remaining part of the 'first side' and going over what we have done so far, making a good 'end of year' point to have reached.

We also got some coverage of the effort in Cyprus Mail (I have been told, not seen it yet) though unfortunately it did not make it onto the cyprus mail website. However there were piccies of previous efforts and a mention for the forum site as well, which is all good stuff. Did not really see any increase in numbers due to this coverage but none the less it was most welcome.

Anyway that's it for the moment. Will put up some piccies tomorrow. Again a massive thanks to everyone who contributed to this effort.

[brother]

Well done Erol and everyone that went and helped, job well done. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

[respiridus]

Bravo re, really impressing effort!!!

Good to see that there are people who care. Can we do something similar in the south?

[erolz]

respiridus wrote: Bravo re, really impressing effort!!!

Good to see that there are people who care. Can we do something similar in the south?

Hi Respiridus

The idea was to try and get people from 'both sides' to help with this effort (which we have had some sucsess with - thanks to my Greek Cypriot compatriots that have helped in this effort), with a veiw to perhaps moving to a similar site in the South once this cemetery was cleared up.

It is prooving difficult to get people along however and especially Cypriots, from either side. So far I have found it easier to get ex pat Brits to help clear up Cypriot graveyards than getting Cypriots to do so. Also you can get 90% support (from any community) intellecutaly , but physical support tends to drop to < 1% . Still having said all that we have made some impact on the cemetery to date, we have had Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot working togeather in these efforts, all be it with a majority of Brit expats.

[erolz]

Some pics as promised (can be found in events section of the album too)

before


after


before


after


before


after

[respiridus]

erolz wrote: respiridus wrote: Bravo re, really impressing effort!!!

Good to see that there are people who care. Can we do something similar in the south?

Hi Respiridus

The idea was to try and get people from 'both sides' to help with this effort (which we have had some sucsess with - thanks to my Greek Cypriot compatriots that have helped in this effort), with a veiw to perhaps moving to a similar site in the South once this cemetery was cleared up.

It is prooving difficult to get people along however and especially Cypriots, from either side. So far I have found it easier to get ex pat Brits to help clear up Cypriot graveyards than getting Cypriots to do so. Also you can get 90% support (from any community) intellecutaly , but physical support tends to drop to < 1% . Still having said all that we have made some impact on the cemetery to date, we have had Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot working togeather in these efforts, all be it with a majority of Brit expats.

:idea: Are you arking me to come and help?

[erolz]

respiridus wrote: :idea: Are you arking me to come and help?

I ask everyone to come and help. Are you offering to come and help? :)

[andytandreou]

Erol, your efforts are much appreciated and I want to thank the people who helped clean that grave-site.

It's my opinion however that grave-sites are a mess everywhere around the island, not just in the North and NOT just because of neglect. Greek Cypriots are much more moved emotionally by pretty Churches and huge holy Temples. It's these Churches that need the most care and attention!

In the eyes of Greek Cypriots a cemetery is a place of death but a Church is a place of Holiness. The house of God! It is these places that need to be restored to their fullest grandeur! If so much as one tiny Church is desecrated, then the entire Greek Cypriot population will remain unfazed, even if you clean every single cemetery on the Island.

Your strategy is obviously one of political gain through confidence building measures like cemetery clean-ups, Right?

A) Cleaning some weeds from some cemeteries is not enough to accomplish anything.
B) The cleaning of the cemeteries only serves to remind Greek Cypriot's of the reasons that the cemeteries are so dirty to start with.
C) Churches should be where most efforts are concentrated. This would show that the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus has respect for historic buildings no matter what religion they belong to.
D) The restoration of all Churches would -once and for all- eliminate the notion that Turkish people are intimidated by Christianity (why else burn and destroy icons and crosses?) and would normalize relations between the two communities.
E) Don't expect praise for doing something which is expected of you anyway. I say this because Turkish monuments in the South have been preserved (in their original religious format) and nothing has ever been desecrated or destroyed.

What you are doing is defiantly a step in the right direction. Just remember though, that it has always been the relatives of the dead who clean up graves. The average G/Cypriot will simply scoff and say "Well... if we where allowed to return to our homes we could clean up the graves ourselves"!!!

[brother]

andytandreou wrote: Erol, your efforts are much appreciated and I want to thank the people who helped clean that grave-site.

It's my opinion however that grave-sites are a mess everywhere around the island, not just in the North and NOT just because of neglect. Greek Cypriots are much more moved emotionally by pretty churches and huge holy temples. It's these Churches that need the most care and attention!

In the eyes of Greek Cypriots a cemetery is a place of death but a church is a place of Holiness. The house of God! It is these places that need to be restored to their fullest grandeur! If so much as one tiny church is desecrated, then the entire Greek Cypriot population will remain unfazed, even if you clean every single cemetery on the Island.

Your strategy is obviously one of political gain through confidence building measures like cemetery clean-ups, Right?

A) Cleaning some weeds from some cemeteries is not enough to accomplish anything.
B) The cleaning of the cemeteries only serves to remind Greek Cypriot's of the reasons that the cemeteries are so dirty to start with.
C) Churches should be where most efforts are concentrated. This would show that the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus has respect for historic buildings no matter what religion they belong to.
D) The restoration of all Churches would -once and for- all wipe-out the notion that Turkish people are intimidated by Christianity (why else burn and destroy icons and crosses?) and would normalize relations between the two communities.
E) Don't expect praise for doing something which is expected of you anyway. I say this because Turkish monuments in the South have been preserved (in their original religious format) and nothing has ever been desecrated or destroyed.

What you are doing is defiantly a step in the right direction. Just remember though, that it has always been the relatives of the dead who clean up graves. The average G/Cypriot will simply scoff and say "Well... if we where allowed to return to our homes we could clean up the graves ourselves"!!!


I welcome all opinions but i felt yours was a tad negative at best. :(

[andytandreou]

brother wrote:
I welcome all opinions but i felt yours was a tad negative at best. :(

The Turkish occupation is a tad negative at best!

If you read what I have to say you'll realize that you can dispel most negative feelings between the two sides by concentrating on issues that are in the hearts and minds of people. Cemeteries are not! Churches are! I am a Greek Cypriot and I'm telling you what works and what doesn't. If you choose to ignore what I'm telling you then why are people cleaning cemeteries?

[brother]

andytandreou wrote: brother wrote:
I welcome all opinions but i felt yours was a tad negative at best. :(

The Turkish occupation is a tad negative at best!

If you read what I have to say you'll realize that you can dispel most negative feelings between the two sides by concentrating on issues that are in the hearts and minds of people. Cemeteries are not! Churches are! I am a Greek Cypriot and I'm telling you what works and what doesn't. If you choose to ignore what I'm telling you then why are people cleaning cemeteries?


Andy why do you feel the need to be so confrontational when you speak to people??? Straight away your defences are up and you start firing in all directions, in the custom of civilised debate its usually customery to respond with well thought out retorts.

But for your benefit this is your one opinion where as many other Greek Cypriot members felt it was a very good idea and have supported it and some attended and done there bit, should we ignore them and take just what you say as the 100% truth only.

I understand though what you are saying but to fix churches etc. requires lots of money wheras cleaning cemetaries requires time and elbow grease more than anything else.