www.talkcyprus.org

[Bananiot]

Here is today's article by Loucas in the Sunday Mail (the same article in Greek in Politis). I find it very enlightening because it deals with the current views of Alexis Galanos, DIKO MP for many years, President of the House of Parliament and a supporter of "OXI" in the referendum:

"FORMER President of the House of Representatives, Alexis Galanos, in a speech he made at seminar recently held in Nicosia, listed four factors, which, in his opinion, dashed any hope of a settlement of the Cyprus problem. These are:

1) Turkey has no incentive whatsoever to allow a solution to the Cyprus problem before she joins the EU and this is still a distant prospect, if it exists at all.

2) The two communities are learning to live and prosper side by side and security is perceived (wrongly I believe), to be achieved with the status quo.

3) For a great number of politicians on both sides it is increasingly more opportune to invest their political future on divisive and empty slogans.

4) Economic and political power is increasingly concentrated in the hands of those whose future depends on the perpetuation of division. To use a legal term, he added, their plans to stay in power were made in “perpetuity”.

This was one of the rare occasions that a politician in Cyprus spoke with courage about painful truths, disregarding the reactions his views could provoke. I personally disagree with the first factor mentioned, even though nobody could rule out the possibility that this would be Turkey’s policy in the future. At least Ankara’s behaviour over the last two years has been different. The fact we did not take advantage of it is another matter. As regards the remaining factors, I think Galanos managed in three sentences to compress the whole truth and all the substance of the current state of affairs.

It has been shown by opinion polls and subsequently confirmed by the result of the referendum that the majority of Greek Cypriots do not want the re-unification of the country. The prefer separation. The oft-used phrase, “they on their side and we on ours”, is unfortunately the view of this majority. Arguably the most paradoxical aspect of the Cyprus issue is that Greek Cypriots have come to terms with partition while the Turkish Cypriots have not.

In previous comments, I had referred to some of the reasons for the paranoid stance, a stance which is now winning ground among the Turkish Cypriots as well. “Since you do not want us, we can quite happily live apart,” I have been told by several Turkish Cypriots I have talked to in the past few months. The logical conclusion of this change of attitude is that the next time – if there is one – the Turkish Cypriots’ ‘no’ will be more resounding than that of Demetris Christofias.

In recent bi-communal meetings, Turkish Cypriot politicians warned their Greek Cypriot colleagues about the problem “If you think that we can persuade the Turkish Cypriots living in Morphou to vote ‘yes’ again, you are making a big mistake,” they said.

With factors 3 and 4, Galanos hit the nail on the head. For almost everyone involved in politics in Cyprus, the position they take on the issue of a settlement is determined by the way they see it affecting their political career. President Papadopoulos is not the only one. It was no accident that the majority of deputies campaigned for the rejection of a settlement. If the there had been a settlement, their term as Representatives would have ended two months later, whereas under normal circumstances they would have another two years in front of them.

As regards those with economic power and political influence, the best example are the owners of the television stations. The perpetuation of division secures them all the benefits they enjoy today. The station owners campaigned rabidly against the solution because in a federal state they would have more competitors. The same fear also influenced the decisions of the hoteliers, developers, contractors and all the businessmen who, stupidly, believed that a settlement would reduce the money in their pocket.

Under the circumstances, another observation made by Galanos in his speech, was spot on – that any hope of a settlement now seems like wishful thinking".

[cannedmoose]

I also thought that this article hit the nail on the head this morning...

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=22718&cat_id=1

Particularly this section:

Quote: The great success diplomatically of the Vassiliou and Clerides presidencies was to convince the international community that the non-solution to the Cyprus problem was due to the intransigence of the Turkish side. That was not so hard to do with Denktash and Ecevit proclaiming without a hint of irony that no solution is the solution to the problem. No one doubted that our side wanted peace and were prepared to make reasonable compromises to get it.

It was enough to convince the Europeans to drop at the Copenhagen summit in 2002 the Helsinki asterisk of 1999 and get us into the EU without a solution to the Cyprus problem.

Almost single-handedly (with a little help from his friend Demetris Christofias, still presumably out there somewhere mixing the cement for the ‘yes’ in the next vote…), our president has succeeded in changing that perception. His emotional clarion call to vote down the dastardly Annan plan may have won the referendum, and gotten us into Europe without having to share the perks with the Turkish Cypriots, but it certainly opened up some eyes in Europe and elsewhere as to the sincerity of our commitment to a peaceful settlement on the basis we had been negotiating with the other side for over 25 years with UN assistance.

Today, without having to give up a centimetre of occupied territory, the world sees Talat and Erdogan as the ones sincerely desiring peace, and Papadopoulos as the one shadow boxing furiously to avoid being forced back into the negotiating ring for fear that he will be knocked out once again as he was at Burgenstock. The Greek government in turn is keeping such a low profile on the Cyprus problem that if it got any lower it would be invisible.

[Bananiot]

Absolutely, I agree with you.

[Birkibrisli]

Bananiot,

Are you trying to tell us that a handful of politicians in the Republic of Cyprus want Cyprus to stay divided for their own narrow self-interest,and nothing else?
Can this be possible?What I know of politicians is that they find out what the people think and want,and they draw up policies to match their voters inspirations.If I am right then what you are saying is theGCs want Partition,and sod the 200,000 Greek Cypriot refugees who have been waiting for some sort of justice for 31 years?

I am not talking about the tens of thousands of Turkish Cypriot refugees who are also waiting for some sort of justice,because I am angry with them for letting themselves locked up like sheep in a big open pen for all these years.
I am angry with them for not standing up to Turkey,and demand their rights according the 1960 constitution.

Please tell me this article is wrong,and there is still some hope of unifying our homeland,if not in a unitary satete,but at least in a BBF?

[Dhavlos]

THis kind of article makes me dispare at the actions of our politicians.

Why cant we just get some new,young people, andget them to make asolution.All this faffing about , imo, of each team trying to get one over the other is not just unconstructive, but it is bloody annoying.

By the time i finish uni, something constructive had better happen or ifeel like i'll go and 'tell' em how to construct a fair country without all the political games they play right now.

AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

[cannedmoose]

Birkibrisli wrote: Are you trying to tell us that a handful of politicians in the Republic of Cyprus want Cyprus to stay divided for their own narrow self-interest,and nothing else?
Can this be possible?What I know of politicians is that they find out what the people think and want,and they draw up policies to match their voters inspirations.If I am right then what you are saying is theGCs want Partition,and sod the 200,000 Greek Cypriot refugees who have been waiting for some sort of justice for 31 years?

BK, unfortunately I think you're living in a different world to the rest of us if you believe that politicians devise policy on the basis of what the people want. Although to an extent, the focus group mentality is increasing in western politics, it's still largely a process of top-down policy, rather than bottom-up.

I recently had a discussion with a contact of mine who is quite an emminent scholar and observer of Cypriot politics, he put it to me like this: 'Politicians here do not rise through the ranks by having great ideas about healthcare, education, immigration and asylum policy, etc. Instead, all political careers are driven by policy on Cyprus. The rest is rather irrelevant'. Therefore, take away the Cyprob and many of these emminent figures would be exposed for what they really are. They're not saying 'sod the refugees', in fact it's quite the opposite - by strumming the tunes that many refugees want to hear, i.e. the old mantras of return of our land, return of all refugees, they can maintain their lofty positions.

Just think what Cypriot politics would be like without the Cyprob. People would begin to ask 'normal' questions as to why there is no functioning public transport network, why the healthcare system is unable to provide universal care for all, why there is such a high level of corruption in public appointments etc. etc.

I don't doubt the intelligence (at least not in most cases) of Cyprus' political leadership, but if you look at the way that politics functions in Cyprus, it's difficult to conclude that it is a mature democracy by any means, rather, as its European Parliamentarians have been labelled by other MEPs as a 'one-issue delegation', so is Cyprus a one-issue state, upon which all other policies depend. Natural, yes; desirable, certainly not.

[Bananiot]

I am sorry to dissapoint you birkibrisli, but I strongly agree with Cannedmoose. Later on, if I get time, I'll try to translate today's article by Yiangos Mikellides (the psychiatrist) which is rather relevant to our discussion.

[cannedmoose]

Bananiot wrote: I am sorry to dissapoint you birkibrisli, but I strongly agree with Cannedmoose. Later on, if I get time, I'll try to translate today's article by Yiangos Mikellides (the psychiatrist) which is rather relevant to our discussion.

I sense an honorary membership of EDI flying my way :lol: :lol: :wink:

[Bananiot]

Just honorary? I have reserved a place for you in the Secretariat! A word of warning, though. You stand a better chance of getting into the House if you join DIKO, the most patriotic of parties. Anyway, here is the article by the good doctor:

ALIENATION

I am seating with friends … the sea in front of me feels me with magic. October and November are the most beautiful months in Cyprus. Its only slightly chilly and it is getting darker.

I feel like an alien. I am indifferent to the talk that takes place around me. Indifferent to the role I should be playing and totally indifferent to the roles the others play.

Strangers, mainly Russian, walk pass. I look at them with envy. I wish I was a stranger like them, to enjoy the island without feeling any responsibility at what is happening around me.

We lead a life without heroes and guiding lines. We struggle all by ourselves to find our way, fighting to discover the truth as though truth is not a self-evident issue. We live like primitive people.

We hear the “holy” fathers of the Sovereign, Orthodox, Christian church of Cyprus … incoherent voices full of hate, without vision, full of intrigue. A cheap world. Persons that have climbed the hierarchy using intrigue and deceit.

Their cheapness represents us and our meagerness. How on earth could we have such leaders if we had any kind of substance? Our leadership merely reflects on our lack of substance. We are without substance and we are liars too. We never say the truth. The truth for each and every one of us is our personal interest, because our brain is narrow and small. The broader the brain of someone the broader will be his thought and naturally his thought would be ecumenical.

In any other place on earth these people would receive a spanking. We do not react. We accept them and join in with them.

Unfortunately, people and leadership accept their own personal interest as the truth. The truth for our leaders is what will lead them to power. Nothing else, even if they are mocked and ridiculed.

In Cyprus, evil is moral and good is now considered a sign of stupidity. The cheats and the traffickers are the heroes while the honest people are ignored. The person that can buy us off is a hero and he who cannot a wanker. The truth is subjective for each of us because it represents the loot. The voice of the person that feeds us is the only truth. As a result we have this chaos around us. The cause for the chaos is the absence of maturity and the almost childish way we confront the world. We face the world with an almost embryonic egocentricity.

This is the sense I get from the little voices of the different leaders of our people on tv and radio. The sense of total egocentrism and loot. Like every normal person I feel alien to this barbarous authority of meagreness and exploitation. Alienation is the result of the barbarity of those that govern us. I feel that we are incapable of confronting them on this level and any other confrontation at a different level is useless …

[Birkibrisli]

Bananiot,

Thanks for the time and effort you put into translating that article.
If the good doctor lived in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus,he probably would need to be hospitalised for mental and emotional dissonance.
In the other forum there is a guy advocating Anarchy as a solution for the Cypro.I am starting to see his point.The problem is I am not sure how we will get organised to overthrow the incumbent politicians if anarchy is the order of the day?

Moose,it looks like you'll have to translate everything Dr Mikellides has written.Hurry up and learn Greek fast,will you?Or I might have to hurry up and learn Greek! :D

[Alexandros Lordos]

Quote: [It has been shown by opinion polls that the majority of Greek Cypriots do not want the re-unification of the country. The prefer separation.

To me as a pollster, this is nonsense. I know of no poll which has shown Greek Cypriots to favour partition over re-unification. Unless the author is misquoting my own survey which showed a rising trend in favour of partition among young people, which however is definitely a minority trend.

[Viewpoint]

Alexandros Lordos wrote: Quote: [It has been shown by opinion polls that the majority of Greek Cypriots do not want the re-unification of the country. The prefer separation.

To me as a pollster, this is nonsense. I know of no poll which has shown Greek Cypriots to favour partition over re-unification. Unless the author is misquoting my own survey which showed a rising trend in favour of partition among young people, which however is definitely a minority trend.

Surely Alex you to can see what is happening to both communities over time, that living apart maybe the best solution we can accomplish. The current stalemate will solidify intransigence on both sides and inevitably the desire for reunification will be lost for ever.All that will be left is the property issue and compensation.

[Alexandros Lordos]

Viewpoint wrote:
Surely Alex you to can see what is happening to both communities over time,

I would argue that nothing out of the ordinary is happening ...

After all, we have been living apart for 30-40 years now, I don't think views will change over a year or two years or three years. Those who believe in re-unification tend to believe this regardless of how much time passes (exceptions acknowledged).

In the hearts of many people I know - and I am speaking about Greek Cypriots here - the same longing for re-unification is still alive, even if it might temporarily be in a state of "hibernation". And believe me, many of those who voted No in the referendum were people who longed for a solution ...

[Viewpoint]

Alexandros Lordos wrote: Viewpoint wrote:
Surely Alex you to can see what is happening to both communities over time,

I would argue that nothing out of the ordinary is happening ...

After all, we have been living apart for 30-40 years now, I don't think views will change over a year or two years or three years. Those who believe in re-unification tend to believe this regardless of how much time passes (exceptions acknowledged).

In the hearts of many people I know - and I am speaking about Greek Cypriots here - the same longing for re-unification is still alive, even if it might temporarily be in a state of "hibernation". And believe me, many of those who voted No in the referendum were people who longed for a solution ...

IMO I totally disagree and I can sense from Turkish Cypriots on daily basis that people have given up on any solution accepting the current status quo as being the best it will get for now and that gradual lifting of embargo's will come over time. The fact that Turkish Cypriots view Greek Cypriots policies regarding a solution and towards Turkish Cypriots in general as being very negative and discouraging (up to their same old tricks mentality) will not do anything for another referendum as you cannot bank on a Turkish Cypriot yes again, don't forget that there will be a high % of people that will automatically vote NO in response to Greek Cypriots NO and people will view any changes in favor of Greek Cypriots as a negative against Turkish Cypriots.

[Bananiot]

IN AN ARTICLE published in the Cyprus Mail on Wednesday, Dr Tim Potier, an Assistant Professor of International Law and Human Rights at Intercollege, spoke about Greek Cypriot politicians’ absurd habit of attacking foreign governments and officials. He wrote:

“They (Greek Cypriots) manage to lose the vital sympathy of key international players when they choose to insult them with their statements. Senior officials from the European Commission and the United Nations have experienced this; the United Kingdom and the United States are frequently exposed and blamed. Yet these are the central characters on the world stage; is it not anything other than utter foolishness constantly to poke them in the eye?”

On the previous day, regarding the same subject, a Cyprus Mail editorial poignantly observed: “The truth is that President Papadopoulos has been quite happy to have confrontations with the UN, which we are also urging to undertake a new peace initiative on Cyprus.”

This paranoid obsession with constant confrontations with the powerful of the world has always been a dear hobby of the political leadership of this country. This “utter foolishness” referred to by Dr Potier was introduced into our political culture by the late Archbishop Makarios. His monk’s cunning told him that by showing himself as a target of the powerful, he could win public sympathy. The daily message of official propaganda during the sixties was that the British and the Americans were to blame for all the ills suffered by Cyprus. People were bombarded every day by the Cyprus Broadcasting Corporation – supported by most of the newspapers – with claims that the US and UK were constantly conspiring against Cyprus and its people.

But the conspiracies always hit a big rock, none other than the Ethnarch Makarios, and were shattered. The message was clear: Makarios is your only protection against the evil foreigners and if he goes you are lost; therefore cherish him, worship him and vote for him. He is the only one who can protect you from the bad wolves. All this may seem absurd to Dr Potier today. But to comprehend it he must take into account the incredible political immaturity of our people, which was even worse 40 years ago.
This indescribable political culture, which was marginalised during the 15-year period of the presidencies of Vassiliou and Clerides, has resurfaced and become common currency under the patronage of the President of the Republic and the President of the House. When we say that Cyprus has returned, politically, to the sixties, this is not just a figure of speech.

Every time Papadopoulos and Christofias decide to respond to criticism from the opposition, this is the type of argument they resort to. Their critics are always identified with the enemy and the foreigners, while they stand for the country and always express the national interest, which only they can define. Their political opponents are on the side of the enemy and knowingly undermine their country.
In the past week, we had some new manifestations of this absurd political mentality. Papadopoulos attacked the UN for showing great tolerance to the Turkish army’s actions on Ledra Street. And he did not omit to accuse DISY chief Nicos Anastassiades for “reporting” his country to the EU – he did not report his country, he reported Papadopoulos and his undemocratic machinations before the referendum.
On the same day, Christofias once again lambasted Britain for dividing the people, imposing the Zurich agreement, cultivating unrest, covering up and exonerating Turkey, playing a leading role in drafting the Annan plan, upgrading the pseudo-state and being the evil demon of Cyprus. Seven charges in a single sentence against a country which plays a decisive role in the forging of developments that affect our fate, is not bad. Add to this the fact the British tourist market is vital to our economy – 60 per cent of visitors come from the UK – and you wonder what Christofias is playing at.

I know I am tiresome, but I will repeat what I always say. It is a miracle how, with these people, the people of “utter political foolishness” determining our future, Cyprus has not suffered much worse things.

LOUCAS CHARALAMPOUS