www.talkcyprus.org

[respiridus]

Hello people :D

I've recently registered in this forum due to my continuing anxiety over my country, Cyprus, and the good old Cyprus problem. I would like to take this opportunity to introduce myself in relation to the problem.

THE GENERALS:
I was born in Nicosia 26 years ago. I am a Greek-Cypriot. My father's origin is from the formely mixed village of Mathiatis, but I'm currently living at Pera Orinis, another small town southwest of Nicosia. I am a Computer Science graduate, and currently manage my own small computer firm, doing mostly web / software development and computer hardware sales and support.

THE BADS:
My family has suffered greatly because of the Cyprus problem. My grandfather's brother was murdered in 1963; my mother's brother is missing since 1974 (we think he was killed during the first invasion near the village of Mia Milia); and our family business was ruined after 1974, since the store was situated right next to the buffer zone.

THE GOODS:
Believe it or not, I've recently found out that I have (distant) Turkish-Cypriot relatives :roll: though I don't know anything about them. I'm also employing a Turkish-Cypriot software developer, and he's as good at the job as I could wish for. The only little problem is that he's living us soon because he has to do his national service :(

I am what you might call a "benevolent nationalist": I love my country (Cyprus) and my nation (Hellenism) but I don't hate Turks. I am even trying to understand them. What I do feel though is fear for the Turkish army and anxiety over our future on this island.

What I want to see in Cyprus is everybody to stop all this ultra-nationalistic nonsense and find a way for all of us to live together. Too much to ask for, I know :(

Anyway, that's it. I just wanted to say "hi"!

[city]

Hi respiridus,

thanks for your introduction and welcome to the forum!
Sounds like you will give some good and valuable input here.

Again :welcome:

[boomerang]

Welcome respiridus nice to have on board another member involved in the computer industry...I am also involved in the computer hardware industry...I make nVidia based VGA cards.

[brother]

Hi respiridus and welcome to the forum :welcome:


I think it is safe to say we all share the same worries over our island on this forum and hence its formation to encourage dialogue, at times it does get heated (cypriot tempers are well known :wink: ) but ultimately we all want unity.

For what its worth i think we need to kill off nationalism and first start respecting each other as cypriot and nothing else as the way we are going with the turkish and greek we like to put before cypriot is just encouraging the nationalists to point out that we are different even though DNA tests prove we are the same people and its the mainland people who are different from us.

But if you start firing some topics i am sure many of us will enter the debate and many an issue will clear up over time.

[Bananiot]

Welcome re spiridus, I must say I enjoyed your introductory remarks. Why do you describe yourself as a conservative nationalist?

Quote: I am what you might call a "conservative nationalist": I love my country (Cyprus) and my nation (Hellenism) but I don't hate Turks. I am even trying to understand them. What I do feel though is fear for the Turkish army and anxiety over our future on this island.

The above statement does not make you a conservative nationalist (ie Le Pen) and if you are an APOEL supporter you are no fascist either.

[respiridus]

Quote: The above statement does not make you a conservative nationalist (ie Le Pen) and if you are an APOEL supporter you are no fascist either.

Sorry bana, what I meant is that I am a nationalist in a conservative way, i.e. I love my nation without hating everybody else's. Nationalism is actually a good thing under this condition imho: it helps define a people that has a common language, religion, culture etc. thus promoting diversity which is a good thing (tm).

OK. Changed "conservative" to "benevolent"; I think it better describes what I mean here.

Thanks to all for your welcomes :D

[erolz]

Welcome to the site respiridus, good to have you on board :)

[Dhavlos]

Welcome respiridus.....
enjoy the forum

I think we all share the same worries for cyprus!

I dont think nationalism is always bad, but what cyprus needs is not greek and turkish nationalism, but CYPRIOT nationalism (not exclusive, but inclusive)...to help us build a multicultural cyprus, with mutual feelings of respect, tolerance and love for our compatriots

[respiridus]

Quote: I dont think nationalism is always bad, but what cyprus needs is not greek and turkish nationalism, but CYPRIOT nationalism (not exclusive, but inclusive)...to help us build a multicultural cyprus, with mutual feelings of respect, tolerance and love for our compatriots

A multi-cultural Cyprus would be the best thing since sliced bread, I agree. Alas, there are at least 3 problems with this:

1. 75% of Greek-Cypriots don't want this (figure based on my personal experience).
2. Mr. Tassos Papadopoulos doesn't want this, although I think Christofias and Anastasiades do.
3. The Turkish-Cypriot leadership doesn't want this.

I wonder what the Turkish-Cypriots want.

[Xenos 2Fan]

Welcome on board respiridus. Nice to have you here. 8)

[Birkibrisli]

respiridus wrote: Quote: I dont think nationalism is always bad, but what cyprus needs is not greek and turkish nationalism, but CYPRIOT nationalism (not exclusive, but inclusive)...to help us build a multicultural cyprus, with mutual feelings of respect, tolerance and love for our compatriots

A multi-cultural Cyprus would be the best thing since sliced bread, I agree. Alas, there are at least 3 problems with this:

1. 75% of Greek-Cypriots don't want this (figure based on my personal experience).
2. Mr. Tassos Papadopoulos doesn't want this, although I think Christofias and Anastasiades do.
3. The Turkish-Cypriot leadership doesn't want this.

I wonder what the Turkish-Cypriots want.

Hello,respiridus,and a big welcome to you.
Turkish Cypriots want different things as you can imagine.
A minority of us want a unitary multicultural state,based on one vote one value system,where nobody gives a toss about anybody else's ethnicity or religious affiliation. As some others have stressed above,this will only happen if we can push our turkishness or greekness behind a unified Cypriot national identity. So when I say "I am proud of my nation" and you say "I am proud of my nation" we are talking about the same nation.
I am often called "Utopian" in this forum,and that is when people are feeling benevolent!
Stick around and you will find what we all think in time.I think it was "brother" who already said some of our arguments can get pretty heated,but we never hold personal grudges,which allows people to speak their minds freely.

[erolz]

Birkibrisli wrote:
Turkish Cypriots want different things as you can imagine.
A minority of us want a unitary multicultural state,based on one vote one value system,where nobody gives a toss about anybody else's ethnicity or religious affiliation. As some others have stressed above,this will only happen if we can push our turkishness or greekness behind a unified Cypriot national identity.

Just for the record Birkibrisli and so there can be no doubt this too is what I want for Cyprus. Where we differ is on how best to achieve this goal. You appraoch seems to be to forget history and the lessons it should have touaght, forget or ignore that it requires both sides to 'push their turkisness or greekness behind a unified Cypriot idendity', dismiss the dangers of one side or both NOT doing this, ignore the eveidence that there are many and powerful elements on both sides that would not do this, and just 'hope' that it all comes out ok in the end. This to me is not utopian, it's just wishful thinking.
My approach is that we have to map out a route to this idea, that recognises our past failures, that recognises that there are real and strong elements that will work against this idea and that seeks to go through a series of stages to this goal - not simply declare it overnight and hope. A route with protections along the way that slowly disapear as it it shown and prooven that BOTH sides have put the past behind them and are trying to create a new and different future.

[Alexios]

Welcome respiridus.

[Birkibrisli]

erolz wrote: Birkibrisli wrote:
Turkish Cypriots want different things as you can imagine.
A minority of us want a unitary multicultural state,based on one vote one value system,where nobody gives a toss about anybody else's ethnicity or religious affiliation. As some others have stressed above,this will only happen if we can push our turkishness or greekness behind a unified Cypriot national identity.

Just for the record Birkibrisli and so there can be no doubt this too is what I want for Cyprus. Where we differ is on how best to achieve this goal. You appraoch seems to be to forget history and the lessons it should have touaght, forget or ignore that it requires both sides to 'push their turkisness or greekness behind a unified Cypriot idendity', dismiss the dangers of one side or both NOT doing this, ignore the eveidence that there are many and powerful elements on both sides that would not do this, and just 'hope' that it all comes out ok in the end. This to me is not utopian, it's just wishful thinking.
My approach is that we have to map out a route to this idea, that recognises our past failures, that recognises that there are real and strong elements that will work against this idea and that seeks to go through a series of stages to this goal - not simply declare it overnight and hope. A route with protections along the way that slowly disapear as it it shown and prooven that BOTH sides have put the past behind them and are trying to create a new and different future.

Erol,
I have no doubt that that we want the same things for Cyprus.
And I respect your point of view as to the means to achieve it.
But can you see,that if you heard the same arguments for 45 years,and you saw things getting from bad to worse for your country,and you could see no way forward using the usual arguments,that you too might want to try something different for a change?

[erolz]

Birkibrisli wrote: Erol,
I have no doubt that that we want the same things for Cyprus.
And I respect your point of view as to the means to achieve it.
But can you see,that if you heard the same arguments for 45 years,and you saw things getting from bad to worse for your country,and you could see no way forward using the usual arguments,that you too might want to try something different for a change?

I hear what you are saying an in reality have much sympathy for this view. There are times when I just think 'sod it' let's just accept being a minority within a Greek Cypriot cypriot state. If I were the entire Turkish Cypriot community myself, and as a person who has no children and no intention or desire to create any, and with a 'get out' of British citizenship should things turn really bad, I would probably be willing to take such a risk. However as a real community that is much 'larger' than just myself I think such an approach is simply too risky given the current conditions and feel it would be irresposible of me to insist that this community , that does have future generations to worry about and does not have a 'get out' protection of alternative citizenship, take these risk that I myself as an indivdual may be willing to take.