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Moderate’ politicians criticise government on solution strat
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Bullika
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:30 pm    Post subject: Moderate’ politicians criticise government on solution strat Reply with quote

Moderate’ politicians criticise government on solution strategy

BY ANDREAS HADJIPAPAS

TWO "moderate" Greek Cypriot politicians have criticised the government for failing to make the best use of Turkey’s European aspirations in order to promote a Cyprus solution, at the same time expressing fears the protracted deadlock would lead to the island’s permanent partition.

United Democrats deputy leader Michalis Papapetrou said the Papadopoulos government was not cognizant of the way it could operate within the European environment.

"It sees conspiracies an old enemies everywhere and, as it gets isolated, is always on the defensive.

"Unfortunately we are seen as the side that blocked the solution of the Cyprus problem".

Papapetrou, Government Spokesman in the Clerides administration, said the Cyprus problem was "almost totally absent" from the negotiating framework for Turkey agreed in Luxembourg earlier this month .

"If our policy was more convincing, then Turkey would be compelled, in this framework, to make concrete moves and concessions on Cyprus."

Papapetrou urged that steps be taken by the Greek Cypriot side to convince the world that we really want a solution.. .our side must push for the urgent resumption of talks for a settlement. If the government is right in its conviction that Turkey’s European course will force it to solve the Cyprus problem, how can such pressure be exerted if there is no new initiative and talks?"

Papapetrou expressed fears that if there was no solution now, then the situation would lead to final partition.

Nicos Rolandis, a former Foreign Minister, wen t a step further and warned that if there was no move now to end the stalemate, there was a danger not only of partition but of the seizure of the whole island by Turkey.

"In the last few months, some people were expecting that Europe would open the way for a just solution. Instead, Europe opened its doors to Turkey by launching membership talks."

"We are now going to wait for 10-15 years in the hope that Ankara will recognise us. If it does, without revoking its recognition of the north, this will amount to the recognition of two states, which is tantamount to partition."

Rolandis, who was Foreign Minister under President Kyprianou from 1978-1983, lamented the absence of any new move by the UN to restart the peace process.

"Nobody cares about addressing our concerns", he said, adding that the rejection of the Annan Plan by the Greek Cypriots in the April 2004 referendum had exasperated" Europe and the world.

When he resigned as Foreign Minister in September 1983, in protest, he told President Kyprianou that his policies would leave Cyprus with (UN) resolutions and the continuing (Turkish) occupation . "Today I would add that there is the danger of the occupation extending to the whole Cyprus."

He warned that the conditions pertaining to a solution were getting "continually more difficult," since there were more mainland Turkish settlers moving to the north, Greek owned land was being turned into Turkish Cypriot building complexes, living standards there were rising , and soon they might get direct trade.

Rolandis said that when he had a lunch with Mehmet Ali Talat recently, the Turkish Cypriot leader told him that the desire for reunification was gradually diminishing "because of our stand."

He also asserted that among Greek Cypriots, "half of those who voted No in the referendum see partition as the best solution."

Rolandis finally addressed himself to left-wing Akel leader Demetris Christofias and told him that while the communists had always stood for the island’s reunification, Akel’s decision to back President Papadopoulos and call for a No vote in the referendum would lead exactly to what Akel had fought for four generations to prevent - the permanent division of the island.

Akel, under the late Ezekias Papaioannou, had quit the Kyprianou government twice (in 1980 and 1984) "because he found himself in exactly the same position you are in now," Rolandis told Christofias.
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Bananiot
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Papapetrou was today elected as leader of EDI party when Vasiliou stepped down. Present at the congress of EDI today were representatives of all parties in the north. Most impressive were the representative of CTP (a young guy whose name I do not remember) and Mustafa Akinci. i could relate with everything they said in their brief address to the Congress.
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cannedmoose
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bananiot wrote:
Most impressive were the representative of CTP (a young guy whose name I do not remember) and Mustafa Akinci. i could relate with everything they said in their brief address to the Congress.


It wasn't Ozdil Nami was it?
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Bananiot
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just seen you question Moose. Yes it was Nami indeed!
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cannedmoose
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bananiot wrote:
Just seen you question Moose. Yes it was Nami indeed!


He's a great guy. Exactly the sort of modern leader that the Turkish Cypriots need.
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cannedmoose
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of interest Bananiot (and Erol, this may need to be split from the thread into the politics section), I've hardly been able to find anything on the change in leadership in EDI. Do you see the change in leadership having any effect whatsoever on EDI policies, or will Vassiliou still effectively be at the helm, in the same way as Lyssarides still represents the beating heart of EDEK and Klerides continues to loom over DHSY? In other words, will we see EDI move towards a union with any of the other 'centrist' parties?
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Bananiot
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDI will not merge with any of the parties of the centre because of the huge differences on the Cyprus issue. (I would like to also make a point here of the fact that labels such as centre and right or even communist do not make much sense in Cyprus. In fact there is a general consensus regarding the socioeconomic policies and even communist AKEL has an old style labour party approach on these issues and uses only socialist rhetoric to appease some of its die-hard communist members). The Cypriot parties are probably classified better according to their position on the Cyprob and their strategy for its solution. EDEK and DIKO have always been the most extremist parties from this point of view because of their maximalist calls nationalist rhetoric. DISI is peculiar because it incorporates some of the most pragmatic and moderate members and leaders and yet some of the most extremists (eg Sampson junior). AKEL has receded to social nationalism (at least the leadership) and this could be the back lash or delayed response to the fall of the Soviet Union (AKEL was staunchly pro Moscow and even hailed the invation of Czechoslovakia back in 1968). The other small parties are to the right (meaning extreme position on the Cyprob) of DIKO and EDEK.

Thus EDI are an oasis in the desert of the Cyprus party political scene. Along with the rational voices in DISI they are our hope of avoiding disaster. Vasiliou will not be another Lyssarides simply because Papapetrou is no Yiannakis Omirou. Papapetrou is a strong leader with strong convictions and lots of charisma. I also doubt it very much whether old Klerides messes up with DISI party affairs. He is too much of a gentleman to do this and anyway, Anastasiades would not stand for this.

By the way, I hear old Lyssarides is hoping for the Presidency of the House of Representatives. May be someone whistled in his ears that Christofias and Papadopoulos may break up. This could happen, provided the polls show a marked move of AKELites to DIKO. This is the only thing that will hurt AKEL. Partition of Cyprus is peanuts, they can live with partition.
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Bananiot
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgive this derogation of mine but I urge those members that understand Greek to read the following text by Makarios Droushiotis on the recent visit of Mikis Theodorakis in Cyprus and the reason the programmed visit in 1988 was canceled.

http://www.makarios.ws/cgibin/hweb?-A=935&-V=index

This article says a lot of the two-faced society of ours and the hold the extremists always had on our people.

P.S. Moose, I believe the uncle of Ozdil Nami was killed during the battles of Mansoura in 1964. His family were Denktash supporters to start with, if my memory serves me right.
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cannedmoose
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're correct Bananiot... he also used to work in Denktas' office. In my discussions with him, however, his views are very moderate and very pro-solution. I hope that one day, he'll be in a position to lead his people, I think he's an outstanding guy.
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Alexandros Lordos

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Moderate’ politicians criticise government on solution s Reply with quote

MEHMET_OSMAN_KKTC wrote:

Papapetrou, Government Spokesman in the Clerides administration, said the Cyprus problem was "almost totally absent" from the negotiating framework for Turkey agreed in Luxembourg earlier this month .

"If our policy was more convincing, then Turkey would be compelled, in this framework, to make concrete moves and concessions on Cyprus."


I dont believe that anything more on Cyprus could have been mentioned in the negotiating framework. This is just "opposition-talk".

Having said that, it is indeed time now to move for Comprehensive Settlement negotiations. Turkey (and her allies, UK and US) seem to be ready for it, but our side, the Greek Cypriot side, is already cultivating a paranoia that "these are just efforts to bring back the Annan Plan", thus "immunizing" the public AGAINST a recommencement of negotiations.

Frankly speaking, I no longer understand the current Greek Cypriot government's position and strategy. Waiting until after October 3rd I could understand, but any further delay is IMO totally meaningless. This is the time to recommence negotiations, also insisting on the right framework such that will guarantee extensive discussion and agreement on all issues involved, before a new referendum takes place.

And yet, Tassos says that "2006 will be the next benchmark", "when Turkey will be forced to implement the protocol and allow Greek Cypriot ships into Turkish ports". Confused

I really can't understand what he is trying to achieve ...

There was a time when I said "Let's give Tassos a chance - he may surprise us all". Well, for me that chance has come and gone, and I have not seen anything to convince me that this person is working for a fair and agreed solution.
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-mikkie2-

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexandre,

At this moment in time I think that what is happening is to make Turkey sweat a bit. I think it has finally hit tem that their progress in EU membership talks is very depndant on Cyprus and that is why we are getting these calls for recomencement of 'negotiations'. One has to question the motives for Turkey to commence negotiations now. Is it because they want to force us to accept the Annan plan with minor cosmetic changes with the threat of some klind of recognition by US/UK if we don't or do they genuinely want to negotiate and take our concerns on board?

For me that is the problem and I think that Cyprus probably wants to make TUrkey very aware of the difficulties she will face. Whether it is best to let Turkey 'suffer' a bit in the hope that she is more compliant in negotiations I don't really know. I think whether negotiations start now or in 6 months time makes little difference regarding progress but may make a difference in psychological terms. I personally wouldn't feel quite so pessimistic - perhaps Cyprus also wants to get the UK presidency of the EU out of the way before making any moves. It has to be said that the press in general has been scathing of the UK presidency of the EU. Its not just Cyprus that has said Britain is folloing her own agenda.
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Alexandros Lordos

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-mikkie2- wrote:
Alexandre,

At this moment in time I think that what is happening is to make Turkey sweat a bit. I think it has finally hit tem that their progress in EU membership talks is very depndant on Cyprus and that is why we are getting these calls for recomencement of 'negotiations'. One has to question the motives for Turkey to commence negotiations now. Is it because they want to force us to accept the Annan plan with minor cosmetic changes with the threat of some kind of recognition by US/UK if we don't or do they genuinely want to negotiate and take our concerns on board?


Whether new negotiations will lead to "cosmetic changes to the Annan Plan" or "Substantial alterations" no longer depends on how long we wait. This was true until October 3rd - negotiations before that date would have sought to "close things in a rush" so that on October 3rd Turkey would begin accession negotiations with a "United Cyprus Republic" at the other end of the table. Now, however, the Greek Cypriot side has all the guarantees it needs (or, alternatively put, all the guarantees it will ever get) that its concerns will not be ignored. Why? Because Turkey, and the EU, have irrevocably committed themselves to a course leading to EU accession for Turkey, a course that can never reach its final destination unless the Republic of Cyprus consents as well.

Given this huge strategic advantage that the Greek Cypriot side now has, it would be relatively easy to put forward and insist on all our reasonable demands for a new process: No mediation by UN, enough time to discuss the issues, substantial renegotiation of settlers, security and property.

My point is: We have already achieved this new context, there is no need to wait further, and by "immunizing" the public AGAINST new negotiations the government is doing a disservice to the cause of a solution. The innuendo behind the government's policy, the message it is trying to pass to the Greek Cypriot public, is that "bicommunal negotiations will only ever lead to something like the Annan Plan, so if we want a truly acceptable solution we have to force Turkey to recognise the Republic of Cyprus and then get the Turkish Cypriots to re-join the Republic as well". Therefore, Tassos refuses to meet with Talat (thus refusing to grant the Turkish Cypriots the status of a community), he lies about the number of settlers (two settlers for every Turkish Cypriot) thus ridiculing the concept of power sharing in the context of a bizonal bicommunal federation, and then, as a footnote, he lies that "ofcourse we are striving for a bizonal bicommunal federation" ...
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-mikkie2-

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I think that perhaps you have done a bit of a U turn here!

I personally think that Tassos wants to get the UK presidency of the EU out of the way before wanting to start any negotiations given his desire for more involvement of the EU in negotiations. I also think he wants to make damn sure what Turkey will be up against if she does not play fair. This inevitably will require a bit of time post October 3rd.

I guess you may be in a better position than I to determine what is going on behind the scenes. But I get the feeling that things will start moving early next year.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-mikkie2- wrote:
Hmm, I think that perhaps you have done a bit of a U turn here!

I personally think that Tassos wants to get the UK presidency of the EU out of the way before wanting to start any negotiations given his desire for more involvement of the EU in negotiations. I also think he wants to make damn sure what Turkey will be up against if she does not play fair. This inevitably will require a bit of time post October 3rd.

I guess you may be in a better position than I to determine what is going on behind the scenes. But I get the feeling that things will start moving early next year.


Dream on guys, your arrogant leader is playing his EU card full and square and has absolutely no intention to return to the UN negotiating table. If you cant see this then you are blind, his aim is to use EU leverage to extract as much as he can from a country that has EU aspirations, his first attack will be the ports issue lets see who will get what they want, Turkey will push for opening of ports in unison with the ports in the north, so hold your hats this is going to be a bumpy ride not just for Turkey but you guys as well because many EU member states still have an axe to grind against the south due to the result in the referendum, they may pay lip service to it was your right to say no but believe me when the time comes they will not hesitate to stab you in the back., thus getting you guys to agree to developments which for many years you have adamantly argued against.
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Bananiot
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree with the analysis of Alexandros and of course this behaviour of Papadopoulos is perfectly understandable. The first question that springs to mind is about AKEL. Does Christofias understand the game Papadopoulos is playing? Is he going along with the President? What will Christofias do at a time when it is of paramount importance for the party to have movement on the Cyprob? Without movement he will not be able to appease the pro solution function in the party. Christofias needs to show them that the policy is paying dividends. Without movement the party will lose serious votes in the forthcoming elections. I think we are entering a most interesting period regarding party politics but, as far as the Cyprob is concerned, there is nothing on the horizon, bar the unfolding policy of the President who finally is shedding more light on his intentions. I only would hope that people could see through his strategy, of complete rejection of BBF and adherence to nebulous goals (returning to the 1960 Constitution etc) that eventually will result in the partition of our island.
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