 |
| Author |
Message |
bg_turk
Deputy
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1317
Location: Bulgaria
|
|
| MicAtCyp wrote: |
We all know what is right and what is wrong for each other, and I beleive we must all put ourselves in the shoes of the other community, and then work out a solution and a new start for our country. |
amen |
|
| Back to top |
|
erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
|
|
| Kifeas wrote: |
| What is this mindset which according to you the Greek Cypriots continue to maintain, and which made them believe that they had the right to impose Enosis? Can you describe it? |
A mindset that says Cyprus is a Greek Island, not a Cypriot Island but a Greek I sland. Always has been and always will be. A mindset that says that what Greek Cypriot want for Cyprus should always be accepted and imposable on all Cypriots because Cyprus is a Greek Island. A mindset that says democracy means the Greek Cypriot community has a right to impose it will on the Turkish Cypriot community, should it want to.
| Kifeas wrote: |
Nevertheless, since you also said that you have no problem with such an idea, do you also believe that we should introduce it, and if yes, how to you suggest we go about it? |
We do not introduce it by simply saying 'we are all just cypriots now'. First we have to create an environment where we can show and proove that the larger Greek Cypriot comunity will not, once again, try and impose a Greek Cypriot will on the Turkish Cypriot community.
| Kifeas wrote: |
| erolz wrote: |
| That I should have no concerns or fears that it might not actualy happen. That what may possibly happen is that Cypriots continue to think in terms of Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot in some or many issues and that the larger Greek Cypriot community may seek to impose it will as a community on the Turkish Cypriot community. This is where my problems lie. |
Aren’t we talking about completely departing from this community splitting idea? Why do you keep bringing the concept of larger vs. small community, since the idea is for them to cease from constituting entities, as such. We will only be referring to Greek speaking and Turkish speaking Cypriots, and in the future to bi-lingual or even multi-lingual Cypriots. When I say to depart from this community splitting concept, I mean it in an institutionalised way? The constitution will have to make no distinction between communities, both languages will be official, complete disassociation of religion from political and governmental affairs (it is not allowed by the EU anyway,) and no formation of political parties along and on the basis of “ethnicity” (it is not allowed by the EU as well.) All political parties should be open to all Cypriots and should be based on socio-ideological platforms and not on “ethnic” platforms. All these will be guaranteed in the constitution.
All schools, either being Greek language based or Turkish language based or English language based, will also be required to teach for a certain number of hours, lessons of all the other official languages as well.
In the parliament and the ministry cabinet, both languages will be permitted and there will be simultaneous translation in both official languages. The press will be free. Those who wish to have a Greek language newspaper will be free to do so, those who wish to publish a Turkish language newspaper the same, etc, etc.
If a non-political, non governmental association wishes to conduct a commemorating ceremony of the life and death of let’s say Kemal Atatürk, or to commemorate the “peace operation” of 1974, let them do it. As long as it will not be turned out into a chauvinist delirium –something which will not be allowed by the constitution and the laws, anyway, I personally will have no problem. Will you?
What is it that your fear under this concept? |
My fear under this concept of just ignoring that we were and are split on many issues on ethnic lines, is that simply saying this is not the case any more will not work. All it will do is give effective unrestricted control to one group in Cyprus, namely the Greek speaking numerical majority, at the expense of Turkish speaking numerical minority. |
|
| Back to top |
|
erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
|
|
| MicAtCyp wrote: |
| I disagree with Erol that the cause of division was Enosis as such. Enosis or no Enosis, even if Greece would not exist, the Turkish Cypriots did not want the British to go, because they were afraid of exactly what Birkibrisli said: The majority rule. |
To be afraid of majority rule you must be afraid of the majority. Did (or do) Turkish Cypriot have any valid reasons to be afraid of a Greek Cypriot majority? Did or does this majority behave in ways that give rise to these fears? Could this majority have behaved and behave in ways that meant we did not and do not fear the majority?
| MicAtCyp wrote: |
From the few posts of Birkibrisli that I read, I would tell him "aferin sana yurttasim" for this simple reason: Because he has a vision that we all should become Cypriots and defend and support each other. We all know what is right and what is wrong for each other, and I beleive we must all put ourselves in the shoes of the other community, and then work out a solution and a new start for our country. |
Amen indeed. This is what we should do. Is it what we actualy did ? Is it what we are actulay doing now ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
MicAtCyp
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 313
|
|
The brief answers to your questions Erol are:
No
Not necessarily
Not more than the majority was "afraid" of the minority. Simply they were both afraid of the unknown-like I said they never had the chance to work together as Cypriots.
To Bg-turk:What is in your signature is not what is right for the 2 communities, so your "amen" is an oxymoron. |
|
| Back to top |
|
bg_turk
Deputy
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1317
Location: Bulgaria
|
|
In its current form the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is very undemocratic and racist in its attitude towards Greek Cypriots.
In my opinion it should change its attitude towards Greek Cypriot refugees and allow those Greek Cypriots that wish to live under its jurisdiction and respect its laws, to return to their homes and compensate them for all of their losses. In this sense I do not think the existence of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is contradictory to what you said, at least not more contradictory than the existence of the Republic of Cyprus. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
|
|
| bg_turk wrote: |
In its current form the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is very undemocratic and racist in its attitude towards Greek Cypriots.
In my opinion it should change its attitude towards Greek Cypriot refugees and allow those Greek Cypriots that wish to live under its jurisdiction and respect its laws, to return to their homes and compensate them for all of their losses. In this sense I do not think the existence of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is contradictory to what you said, at least not more contradictory than the existence of the Republic of Cyprus. |
Now, ...this is a question for Erol to answer! |
|
| Back to top |
|
erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
|
|
I agree the Republic of Northern Cyprus should allow Greek Cypriot that want to live in the North to do so. To be honest I am not sure what the restrictions on this are? Certainly there are some exceptions - one I can think of anyway.
I am a little concerned about a 'piecmeal' approach to property issues rather than a comprehensive one. There is laready the 'property board' but that it would seem is lacking atm as a means of 'fair redress' according to echr. |
|
| Back to top |
|
MicAtCyp
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 313
|
|
| bg-turk wrote: |
| In its current form the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is very undemocratic and racist in its attitude towards Greek Cypriots. In my opinion it should change its attitude towards Greek Cypriot refugees..... |
So what you adverstise in your signature is something undemocratic and racist. Thanks for the confirmation.
For your information 90% of the properties in the so called "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" belong to Greek Cypriots. The changes you visualise to make the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" democratic and not racist will mean the end of it simply because it's own constitution and the very basic articles of it, like for example article 159 are based on theft .
*************************
Erol should I remind you that the property committee was established when Denktash was your leader? Should I remind you what Talat himself said about it then? He said there is no money to even compansate 0.0001% of the Greek Cypriot refugees!
Some arguments I hear in the forums are really a joke!
| Erol wrote: |
| I agree the Republic of Northern Cyprus should allow Greek Cypriot that want to live in the North to do so. To be honest I am not sure what the restrictions on this are? Certainly there are some exceptions - one I can think of anyway. |
Let me make it easy for you Erol:There are no restrictions if you live there on a 3 day visa sleep in a hotel (most propably stolen from a Greek Cypriot) and spend your money in restaurants, in whorehouses and in the cazinos. There only in one tiny restriction i.e. if you pass through your own house which is currently occupied illegally by a British citizen and dare cut a rose from your own garden you may end up in jail.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
|
|
| MicAtCyp wrote: |
For your information 90% of the properties in the so called "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" belong to Greek Cypriots. The changes you visualise to make the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" democratic and not racist will mean the end of it simply because it's own constitution and the very basic articles of it, like for example article 159 are based on theft .
|
For the sake of accuracy, the private Greek Cypriot properties in the occupied areas are only about 61% of the total area. There is also about 23% of state (public) land and the rest are private Turkish Cypriot land. |
|
| Back to top |
|
bg_turk
Deputy
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1317
Location: Bulgaria
|
|
| Kifeas wrote: |
For the sake of accuracy, the private Greek Cypriot properties in the occupied areas are only about 61% of the total area. There is also about 23% of state (public) land and the rest are private Turkish Cypriot land. |
If you also take into consideration the properties of Turkish Cypriots in the South and exchange them for Greek Cypriots properties in the north, and with some territorial adjustments as the return of Marash, I think it will be managable for the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus to accept those Greek Cypriots that wish to live under its jurisdiction as they will not become a majority, and there will be enough land left for Turkish Cypriots. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
All times are GMT + 3 Hours
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
|
| Page 10 of 10 |
| |
 
 
Link Partners
605118 Attacks blocked
|
Register 
Log in 
Album 
Home