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Donald Keogh
Villager
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 73
Location: Ireland
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I take on board your point concerning Greek/Turkish border disputes, which are currently not topical in the press this side of Vienna, but have not gone unnoticed.
To assume people know very little of the issues in the east Med. basin on the basis of border disputes, which have after all, raged on for many centuries is somewhat misplaced but then I personally have spent no more than 6 weeks in Cyprus, north & south.
This brings me to your comments about investments in Cyprus and hidden agendas. Very curious! It would seem convenient and simple to dismiss remarks about the 'Cyprus problem' on the basis of investments or residency in North Cyprus, something that is quite legal, but not fashionable in certain Greek Cypriot quarters.
The ongoing isolation of the Turkish Cypriot community brings into question how realistic the Greek Cypriot's are in their commitment to finding a solution on the basis of shared partnership.
A federal solution by agreement but not the arrangement as it presently stands.
The EU will ( and have already started) over the coming years move towards ending the isolation of the Turkish Cypriot's.
Protocol 10 to the Accession Treaty, article 3, encourages development in the areas where the aquis is suspended.
The EU's original purpose in signing the customs agreement with Cyprus was that all Cypriots should benefit from the Union.
These are examples of shared sovereignty & democracy within the EU as opposed to the emotional attachment so often encountered which does nothing to promote peace or business in the economic community. |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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| The ongoing isolation of the Turkish Cypriot community brings into question how realistic the Greek Cypriot's are in their commitment to finding a solution on the basis of shared partnership. |
Donald,
There is this MASSIVE misconception that it is the Greek Cypriots that inflict the isolation on the Turkish Cypriot's. This is not the reality. The isolation is self imposed by the factthatthe Turkish Cypriot's decided to unilaterally declare the 'Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus' as an independent state, whcih is contrary to the high level agreements of '77 and '79. The creation of the 'Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus' has been condemned not by the Greek Cypriot's or the Republic of Cyprus, but by the UN which in its numerous resolutions states that 'Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus' is an illegal entity and that no form of recognition or relations with it should be enetered into.
In talking about isolations, the Turkish Cypriot's are still citizens of the RoCy and as such can and do benefit by means of employment, pensions, health care etc, and many do take advantage of this fact.
In the spirit of wanting a solution to the Cyprob the Turkish Cypriot's could in one fell swoop end their self imposed isolation by returning to the pre-1983 situation (pre-Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus). But they don't because they want to promote the 'Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus' as a separate state, not part of some future federal solution.
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| It would seem convenient and simple to dismiss remarks about the 'Cyprus problem' on the basis of investments or residency in North Cyprus, something that is quite legal, but not fashionable in certain Greek Cypriot quarters. |
Legal in whose book? You are telling me that it is legal to take someone elses land or property and develop and sell it to the highest bidder as legal? On whose authority can that be done?
If someone came and did that to your property in the UK or in Ireland would you just sit by and let it happen? I don't think so. It is not a question of 'fashion' but a question of what is right and what is wrong.
Of course you will say that the Greek Cypriot's did the same to the Turks, but that is not the case. Turkish Cypriot land in the south, although some used to house refugees, has not been exchanged or given away willy-nilly but is in fact protected. It may be questioned as to the use of some of this land is put to (or not), but the bottom line is that the land belongs to the Turkish Cypriot's and recognised as such whereas in the north Greek Cypriot's land has simply been looted and sold to the highest bidder and this continues to this day and nobody seems to care or bat an eyelid in this EU utopian world where human rights are supposed to be protected and respected. However, if the Turkish Cypriot's were developing what was state land prior to 1974 then perhaps they would have some justification, but they don't. It is almost exclusively Greek Cypriot owned land. And the reason is that they do not want Greek Cypriot's to return to the north. This is not my idea of a future federation, but segregation. It is fascistic in nature.
At the end of the day, the Turkish Cypriot's must understand that they cannot get away with what they are doing. If they genuinely want unification then they have to show good will. Opening the border and having Greek Cypriot's show their passports in order to travel in their own country rubs salt in the wounds rather than fostering any kind of unity or kinsmanship between the two communities.
As a good will gesture, the RoCy has offered to allow Famagusta port to be opened for use by both communities in exchange for re-opening the ghost town of Varosha to its rightful inhabitants. This would instantly transform the situation because both communities will have to work together to rebuild Varosha. It would create thousands of jobs and boost the economy of both sides. The RoCy has even offered the Turkish Cypriot's to jointly run the port in Larnaca as well. If these are not good will gestures taht woud foster reconciliation then I don't know what is. If the Turkish Cypriot 'isolation' was ended in the manner suggested by the Turks, I wonder if they would have any incentive to push for or want unification! |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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-mikkie2-
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| The RoCy has even offered the Turkish Cypriot's to jointly run the port in Larnaca as well. |
When?? do you have any supporting articles or info?? was it in a package of measures? |
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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8920
Location: London/Cyprus
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| Viewpoint wrote: |
-mikkie2-
| Quote: |
| The RoCy has even offered the Turkish Cypriot's to jointly run the port in Larnaca as well. |
When?? do you have any supporting articles or info?? was it in a package of measures? |
I have never heard this???????????????
Link to the info please mikkie. |
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garbitsch
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 767
Location: Cyprus
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| I've heard that Larnaca proposal. It was rejected by T.Cs because they wanted to operate the ports in North, since I guess the border regulations etc will take too much time. |
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Donald Keogh
Villager
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 73
Location: Ireland
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| Just sent a reply unsuccessfully ! |
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Donald Keogh
Villager
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 73
Location: Ireland
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That argument was used by the British against the secessionist Free State of Ireland and it eventually collapsed.Non recognition of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
does not preclude the fact that a de facto state exists and the administrations in the north are legally conducting their own domestic affairs.
It therefore follows that a large number of Turkish Cypriot's would not want Greek Cypriot passports despite all the social benefits.
There is more chance of Micky Mouse landing on the moon than the Turkish Cypriot's returning to the pre Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus situation. What about the former soviet states that have broken away from Russia?
The Europe of today is a very different Europe of the 70's.Huge territorial realignments have been successfully made from the Baltic to the Balkans in the past 20 years.
The Czech/Slovak republics are a vgood example. |
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Donald Keogh
Villager
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 73
Location: Ireland
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My reference to investment or residency in North Cyprus should not be confused with property matters.
However as you have assumed I was refering tp property you will also be aware of the tousands of Turkish Cypriot's who were forced from their homes, farms and businness's, in the 10 years prior to '74. Both sides lost property and neither side have been compensated for those expropriated properties. To suggest that the purchase of sucvh property. bought in good faith, should be treated outside a comprehensive political agreement is ludicrous. ECHR property restitution cases are bought against the Turkish state and do not effect current occupiers. Many Europeans are wondering what the Greek Cypriot's will do if the Turkish Cypriot's start legal action to reclaim their properties?
Then you mention Ireland and property. Over 80% of the countries wealth was owned by 5% of the population at the time of independence. A similar economic imbalance exists in Cyrus today.
From my point of view, property matters are best settled within the framework of a comprehensive settlement. Varosha would wisely go to the Greek Cypriots. But will there ever be a settlement between the two governments?
These supposed protested Turkish Cypriot properties...protected for whose benefit?
There are some interesting reports coming out on these properties and you would be well advised to read some of them.
Finally Mikki2 , you seem to be on a mission to convince us how wonderful and fair the Greek Cypriot's are...
Both states have interesting and friendly people despite all the ongoing excessive claims, exaggerations and propaganda. |
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