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EU wording difference in relation to Cyprus problem solution

 
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Kifeas
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:16 pm    Post subject: EU wording difference in relation to Cyprus problem solution Reply with quote

Wording differences between Turkey’s negotiating framework and EU counter declaration.

Did anyone else notice the following difference between the EU counter declaration and Turkey’s negotiating framework, in relation to the solution of the Cyprus problem?

Paragraph 7 of the EU counter declaration reads as follows:
Quote:
“In the context of this declaration, the European Community and its Member States agree on the importance of supporting the efforts of the UN Secretary General to bring about a comprehensive settlement of the Cyprus problem in line with relevant UNSCRs and the principles on which the EU is founded, and that a just and lasting settlement will contribute to peace, stability and harmonious relations in the region.”



Paragraph 6 of Turkey’s negotiating framework reads as follows:

Quote:
“The advancement of the negotiations will be guided by Turkey's progress in preparing for accession, within a framework of economic and social convergence and with reference to the Commission's reports in paragraph 2. This progress will be measured in particular against the following requirements:
………………………………………………………………………………
-Turkey's continued support for efforts to achieve a comprehensive settlement of the Cyprus problem within the UN framework and in line with the principles on which the Union is founded, including steps to contribute to a favourable climate for a comprehensive settlement, and progress in the normalisation of bilateral relations between Turkey and all EU Member States, including the Republic of Cyprus.”

Does anyone know why there is this change in the wording and whether it constitutes any difference in meanings, in one way or another?
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erolz

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: EU wording difference in relation to Cyprus problem solu Reply with quote

Kifeas wrote:

Did anyone else notice the following difference between the EU counter declaration and Turkey’s negotiating framework, in relation to the solution of the Cyprus problem?

Does anyone know why there is this change in the wording and whether it constitutes any difference in meanings, in one way or another?


No I did not notice this difference and thanks for pointing it out.

Firstly this is not a wording _change_ in that these two documents are not the different versions of the same thing but actually two different things. I do recall seeing press articles (in cyprus mail I think) suggesting that the Republic of Cyprus would be better off not worrying about the wording on the counter decleration and focusing it's efforts on the framework document. On seeing these differences it would seem to me at least that this was good advise not taken by the Republic of Cyprus.

As far as the two documents go it seem to me again that the framework document is a much more important one than the counter decleration document.

In looking at the different wording in each it is clear that the framework document wording is more in line with Turkish Cypriot/Turkish preference than the counter decleration. The framework document firstly talks of " Turkeys continued support to acheive ..." . This to implys that all 25 EU member states accept that Turkey has so far been supporting such efforts. The counter decleration contained no such affarimation of Turkeys historic support for efforts to reach a settlement. The second difference is between "UNSCR" and "UN framework". This stikes me as a big difference. The UN resolutions on Cyprus, at least post 74 focus on things like the removal of Turkish Troops from the North and non recogntion of the Republic of Northern Cyprus. The 'UN framework' however to me at least refers musc more to the most recent efforts to secure a settlement undertaken by the UN - namely the Annan plan.

Whilst I hate such things, it seems to me taticaly that the Republic of Cyprus made an error of judgement here, focusing it efforts on lengthy wranglings about the wording of the counter decleration leaving little or no opportunity to do so over the framework docuemtn, with the result that they have the 'better' wording (from their perspective) in the less important document. That would be my intial 'analysis' of these diferences.
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Kifeas
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:34 am    Post subject: Re: EU wording difference in relation to Cyprus problem solu Reply with quote

erolz wrote:
Kifeas wrote:

Did anyone else notice the following difference between the EU counter declaration and Turkey’s negotiating framework, in relation to the solution of the Cyprus problem?

Does anyone know why there is this change in the wording and whether it constitutes any difference in meanings, in one way or another?


No I did not notice this difference and thanks for pointing it out.

Firstly this is not a wording _change_ in that these two documents are not the different versions of the same thing but actually two different things. I do recall seeing press articles (in cyprus mail I think) suggesting that the Republic of Cyprus would be better off not worrying about the wording on the counter decleration and focusing it's efforts on the framework document. On seeing these differences it would seem to me at least that this was good advise not taken by the Republic of Cyprus.

As far as the two documents go it seem to me again that the framework document is a much more important one than the counter decleration document.

In looking at the different wording in each it is clear that the framework document wording is more in line with Turkish Cypriot/Turkish preference than the counter decleration. The framework document firstly talks of " Turkeys continued support to acheive ..." . This to implys that all 25 EU member states accept that Turkey has so far been supporting such efforts. The counter decleration contained no such affarimation of Turkeys historic support for efforts to reach a settlement. The second difference is between "UNSCR" and "UN framework". This stikes me as a big difference. The UN resolutions on Cyprus, at least post 74 focus on things like the removal of Turkish Troops from the North and non recogntion of the Republic of Northern Cyprus. The 'UN framework' however to me at least refers musc more to the most recent efforts to secure a settlement undertaken by the UN - namely the Annan plan.

Whilst I hate such things, it seems to me taticaly that the Republic of Cyprus made an error of judgement here, focusing it efforts on lengthy wranglings about the wording of the counter decleration leaving little or no opportunity to do so over the framework docuemtn, with the result that they have the 'better' wording (from their perspective) in the less important document. That would be my intial 'analysis' of these diferences.


Well, I wouldn't really put too much emphasis or importance on the phrase “continued support” as I believe it is mainly a rhetorical one and doesn’t really add anything essential. I mean what difference does it really make if the EU asks Turkey to keep its continued efforts or to re-assume efforts or to undertake new efforts? What matters is the basis on which these efforts will be assumed or will continue to be assumed, rather than whether they were previously assumed or not. It is rhetorical and mainly for impression purposes.

Why do you think the term “within the UN framework” doesn’t include automatically all the existing UN SC resolutions, in addition to the efforts of the UN SG? Can something happen within the “UN framework” but without taking into consideration the relevant UN SC resolutions? After all, the efforts of the UN SG are contacted upon a UN SC mandate. Will this mandate ever be given to the UNSG and at the same time be given outside the concept of the same council’s relevant resolutions? It is an Oxymoron and a very paradoxical assumption. Yet the A-plan took a distance from these resolutions.

Do you know why the UN SG didn’t try to force the adoption of his report by the UN SC, after the referendums and the failure of his initiative and plan? Because this would have generated the Republic of Cyprus’s initiative and request to openly debate his report and consequently his plan, in front of the SC!
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erolz

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought you were asking for peoples views on these differences, so I gave them.

If i were given the choice of wordings between one that talks of Turkey's contined support or one that made no mention of such I would choose the former. If I were given the choice of a refeence to a settlment in line with UNSCR or one in line with UN framework I would choose the former.

This issue of the wording in the counter decleration in regards to the UN framework, Annan Plan or UNSCR and other variants was on of the issues wrangled over by the Republic of Cyprus. You only have to look at the differences between the proposed versions of this document and the one the Republic of Cyprus finally accepted to know that this wording was an issue for the Republic of Cyprus - at least as far as the counter decleration document went, if not for the more important (imo) framework document. One has to wonder why it was such an issue for the Republic of Cyprus in one docuement but not the other?

I do not know if these different wordings will make one iota of difference or not. Quite possibly they will not. However the question, as I understood it was about the differences, not if they will make any difference. I do not knwo if they will make any difference or not. However if they do make any difference then the wording in the framework document is clearly imo better (from Turkish Cypriot perspective) that that in the counter decleration document. That is what I am saying.

As to why the SG did not try and get the SC to 'adopt' his report, he did not do so because there was no need to do so. The terms of the Anna plan, how it was to be negotiated, by whom, for how long and what happend if there was no agreement within these time frames was all AGREED by all parties before the process started. It did not stipulate that the SG final report needed to be adpoted by the SC. That was simply not part of the agreed process. To now make out, after the fact that the Annan plan and vote were not to Greek Cypriot liking and they see a need to villify the document and process and people involved in this (that they had previously agreed too), that this was not done because the SG was 'scared' of the result is to live in a fictional world. There was never any requirment for the SG to do this. You may as well ask why he did not have it ratifed by the GA or Hague or by members of this forum and imply that he did not because he was scared of the result of such. The fact is he did not because there was never any requirment to do so.
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Kifeas
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking back again to the wording of the two paragraphs, in essence they mean or imply the same thing.

The term “within the UN framework” essentially implies what the counter-declaration says, which reads as “the efforts of the UN Secretary General to bring about a comprehensive settlement of the Cyprus problem in line with relevant UNSCRs.” None of the two makes specific reference to the A-plan as such, but both of them can be interpreted as having the UN SC resolutions in their core. The entirely new concept is that of finding of a solution “in line with the principles of the EU.”
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Kifeas
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erol, I would like to see how different people read into these wordings. It doesn't mean that I do not have my own opinion. I just want to hear other opinions and exchange ideas in a dialectical manner.
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erolz

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kifeas wrote:
Looking back again to the wording of the two paragraphs, in essence they mean or imply the same thing.

The term “within the UN framework” essentially implies what the counter-declaration says, which reads as “the efforts of the UN Secretary General to bring about a comprehensive settlement of the Cyprus problem in line with relevant UNSCRs.” None of the two makes specific reference to the A-plan as such, but both of them can be interpreted as having the UN SC resolutions in their core.


They may well mean or imply the same thing but the fact remains the wording IS different and given a choice as a Turkish Cypriot between a wording that ONLY mentions UNSCR resolutions and one that uses the broader less specific term 'UN Framework' I would have no hesitation in choosing the later.

Kifeas wrote:

The entirely new concept is that of finding of a solution “in line with the principles of the EU.”


Entirely new from what? Is it not identical wording here between the two documents? Did the EU (in the form of the comission) give it's explicit support to the Annan plan and call for a yes vote from both sides. The comission at least made it clear that the Annan plan was 'in line with the principles of the EU as I understand it. Cetainly various anti Annan plan advocates claimed it was not in line with EU principles or UN principles or UNSCRs yet the EU in the form of comission and UN in the form of the SG did not agree with these views. So what is new here?
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erolz

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kifeas wrote:
Erol, I would like to see how different people read into these wordings. It doesn't mean that I do not have my own opinion. I just want to hear other opinions and exchange ideas in a dialectical manner.


OK, forgive me. It just felt that you ask for my impression and when I gave it you 'poo pooed' my view. Maybe I am just feeling a little sensative? Who knows. Anyway on with the discussion.
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Kifeas
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erolz wrote:
Kifeas wrote:
Erol, I would like to see how different people read into these wordings. It doesn't mean that I do not have my own opinion. I just want to hear other opinions and exchange ideas in a dialectical manner.


OK, forgive me. It just felt that you ask for my impression and when I gave it you 'poo pooed' my view. Maybe I am just feeling a little sensative? Who knows. Anyway on with the discussion.


okay! I am a bit tired to continue tonight. let's see what others have to say on this wording subject and continue later.
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