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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Viewpoint wrote: |
| Kifeas your last few posts have been very derogatory, you think you have the high ground and are way above everyone else, ease up man we are all human and we all have our own opinions. |
VP please do not personalise the discussions. Doing so never leads to anything constructive but just a diversion from the issues to personalites. Just a friendly request. Thanks. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Viewpoint wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
Bananiot!
Whether Papadopoullos cares for a BBF or not, is irrelevant.
If Annan is ready to scrutinize his previous monstrosity which he called a BBF proposal and turn into a balanced, logical, fair and viable solution proposal, suitable for a country that is a member of the EU and that there should be a decent minimum respect of human rights, and if the spoiled Turkish Cypriot /Turkish leadership are also prepared to accept such a solution, then forget what Papadopoullos cares or doesn't care about, as it will be irrelevant.
Stop beating the packsaddle, only because you cannot beat the donkey! |
Kifeas you are under estimating the power of your own leadership, of course what Tassos thinks is important as he is your chief negotiator meaning he will not negotiate in goodfaith, we have a very good example of this with plan 5, and will produce plan 6 that again will not be acceptable to Greek Cypriots blaming the opposite side for not taking into account his demands.
Tassos is in the driving seat like it or not for Greek Cypriots and will turn the wheel in which ever direction he wants, then he will blame the passengers in the back for the result thats the Greek Cypriot way. The sad part is that he also convinces the onlookers that is was not his fault but everyone elses.
His tactics are obvious he will not risk going through another referendum he will put on an act and pay lip service to wanting a solution via UN but push hard for concessions from Turkey using EU leverage...now whos hold who hostage????theres a very remote chance that the EU will recognize this uncompromising stance and act accordingly. |
Viewpoint!
You are imagining and projecting thinks based on your own experiences living under Turkish occupation in the north, where everything was /is determined by Turkey which allowed everything to be manipulated in front of your eyes by Mr. Denktash simply because Turkey wanted him to be there, and when Turkey didn’t want him to continue, she simply replaced him, and when Turkey wanted you to say yes to the A-plan, you simply said yes, like you will do what Turkey will tell you to do in the next referendum, etc, etc.
In the south, thinks do not work this way, either you believe it or not. Even if Papadopoullos didn’t side against the A-plan and didn’t cry in front of the TV and just remained neutral, the referendum result wouldn’t be 76% “No” but it would be 70%-72% “No.” And even if on top of that AKEL had also remained neutral instead of calling for a “soft” No, the result would have been 65% NO. And even if AKEL had sided with a Yes in the referendum, like DiSi did, then the result would have been 55%-60% “No.” Do not forget that Greece sided with a “YES” in the referendum, only because it wanted to get reed of the problem, and still the Greek Cypriot result was 76% “No.” Why? Because the plan was NO GOOD for the Greek Cypriots, and because we have the freedom to do our choices based on the available options and alternatives own merits.
Papadopoullos is elected only because he has the support of AKEL. If he looses this support, then he cannot be elected again. If there is a decent plan for the Greek Cypriot side and a willingness on behalf of Turkey to accommodate it, but still, as you claim, Papadopoullos is trying to play with time only because he doesn’t want a solution, then be sure he will not be the president for too long, irrespective of whatever his tactics are as you say. |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| erolz wrote: |
| Viewpoint wrote: |
| Kifeas your last few posts have been very derogatory, you think you have the high ground and are way above everyone else, ease up man we are all human and we all have our own opinions. |
VP please do not personalise the discussions. Doing so never leads to anything constructive but just a diversion from the issues to personalites. Just a friendly request. Thanks. |
Point taken  |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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Kifeas,
Agreeing with Turkey or Denktas does not mean we are stupid and cannot make up our own minds, when we go into the polling booth we are alone.
Either way you end up agreeing with someone, do you get my drift?. You voted no because you believed in your leader or did you weigh up the pros and cons and vote according, the latter being what you say you did but you happen to agree with your leader as well, does that mean he manipulated you? well the same goes for us...my mentioning that he easily manipulates Greek Cypriots also goes for us and our leaders, we listen to all and then decide, isnt that what democracy is all about*
Come on Kifeas Turkish Cypriots would have to been very stupid to vote against Annan plan and keep Denktas in power, please dont say we were manipulated by Turkey on those issues, it just not true we needed to change our viewpoint which is what we did.
The south for us appears very fanatical and pressurised people in the run up to the referendum Greek Cypriots were afraid to speak their minds, this we got from Greek Cypriots we met...the lack of unbiased media was very evident when De Soto and Verhugen we not allowed to air thier views on TV, young children wearing tshirts with OXI on them and parading the stretings shouting OXI, smashed cars etc, these just convey extreem brain washed fanatical Greek Cypriots to us. Was the euphoria to obtain a no from a very well planned no campaign an influence?? imo many Greek Cypriots felt that if we say yes now we wont have a chance to go back if we say no we will be in Europe and use leverage to get what we want.
Lets hope that in time you to will see what Tassos is trying to achieve and take the necessary action. But will it be to late? |
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cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
Moderator
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5358
Location: National Forest, England
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| Alexandros Lordos wrote: |
It would seem that the long period of "hibernation" in which the Cyprus Problem had entered after April 2004 may be coming to an end.
Rumour has it that after October 3rd, Kofi Annan intends to start a new initiative for a Comprehensive Settlement. |
Are these rumours from credible sources? I know sense dictates that negotiations should resume ASAP, but sense and practice rarely meet when it comes to to kypriako
Fingers crossed anyway... it's about time we started to get back to the process... |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Certainly some Turkish ministers have been saying expect a new UN initative soon. |
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cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
Moderator
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5358
Location: National Forest, England
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| I know there have been lots of rumours flying around, but what we need to know is whether someone has substantiated rumours, i.e. concrete preparations for the appointment of a new UN representative etc. |
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Birkibrisli
Deputy
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1466
Location: Australia
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Okey,let me try to get to some specifics.
From the top of my head Papadopoulos primarily objected to:
1.The number of Turkish troops to be left,and the speed of withdrawal
2.The number of settlers to remain
3. The limit to the numbers of Greek Cypriot's returning to their homes in the North and their political rights in the Turkish Cypriot BBF
4.The degree of compensation offered to those who don't want to return
5.The abolution of the Republic of Cyprus of 1960 agreement
I don't know the details,so can someone tell us what would be acceptable to Papadopoulos in each of the points above.
What other important sticking points have I missed,and what is Papa's attitude to those.?
Also,would what please Papadopoulos be agreeable to the Greek Cypriot's as a whole? |
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