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Alexandros Lordos
Site Admin

Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 324 Location: Cyprus/Greece
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It would seem that the long period of "hibernation" in which the Cyprus Problem had entered after April 2004 may be coming to an end.
Rumour has it that after October 3rd, Kofi Annan intends to start a new initiative for a Comprehensive Settlement. Apparently, Turkey would favor the re-commencement of negotiations after that date, since the situation with Cyprus has now become very embarassing, politically costly, and dangerous for Turkey's EU accession course. All the other countries that favor Turkey's EU accession have now become aware that unless the Cyprus Problem is solved soon, it will be very difficult for Turkey to join the EU.
Until now, Turkey certainly did now want a recommencement of negotiations, because of the fear that she might be cornered, blackmailed, or made to look like the intransigent side. Now, however, the picture is radically different.
Greece, to the best of my understanding, is distant and aloof, and would not be particularly bothered either way - negotiations or no negotiations, solution or no solution.
As for the Cypriots, the problem remains that Turkish Cypriots ask for guarantees that in new negotiations only minimal changes will be made to the Plan, while the Greek Cypriots ask for guarantees that substantial changes will be made not just minimal.
So, overall, the picture I see developing from the UN's point of view, is that now there are no external political obstacles to new negotiations, so the UN will begin to pro-actively seek common ground between Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot positions, with the new UN special representative going to and fro, between Papadopulos and Talat, on a regular basis ...
And this would be the beginning. |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is

Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 603
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Hi Alexandre,
The front page of Politis on Sunday gave indications that the Cyprus problem will be on the agenda before the end of the year.
Those people that think that the problem will take the length of Turkish entry negotiations in the EU are wrong in my opinion.
The problems that Turkey has been facing in Europe in the last 6 months is a taste for what is to come if the problem remains unresolved and that is why a solution is needed much sooner than much later.
Minor changes to the Annan plan will be unacceptable in my view. It would seem that there is support for some of the issues raised by the Greek Cypriot side regarding property and the functioning of the unified state. Perhaps we will get a proper federation as opposed to the confederation that the current plan gives. This phase will put Papadopoulos to the test and I think (and I hope) many people will be surprised. |
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Viewpoint Warnings : 2 Mukhtar/is

Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 971 Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| -mikkie2- wrote: |
Hi Alexandre,
The front page of Politis on Sunday gave indications that the Cyprus problem will be on the agenda before the end of the year.
Those people that think that the problem will take the length of Turkish entry negotiations in the EU are wrong in my opinion.
The problems that Turkey has been facing in Europe in the last 6 months is a taste for what is to come if the problem remains unresolved and that is why a solution is needed much sooner than much later.
Minor changes to the Annan plan will be unacceptable in my view. It would seem that there is support for some of the issues raised by the Greek Cypriot side regarding property and the functioning of the unified state. Perhaps we will get a proper federation as opposed to the confederation that the current plan gives. This phase will put Papadopoulos to the test and I think (and I hope) many people will be surprised. |
EU Leverage is the name of the game, if it takes 20 years for Greek Cypriots to get what they want through accession talks, then it appears we are all in the fridge where its very cold.
The view is more pessimistic in the north, with no light at the end of the tunnel, and status quo syndrome. Of course the opposition party is now picking up this issue and will start to promote I told you so, you cannot resolve anything with Greek Cypriots attitude which many Turkish Cypriots will feel closer to their current mindset.
As for major changes to Annan plan then you can will also be guaranteeing a resounding OXI from the Turkish Cypriot side, people here are very untrusting of Greek Cypriot motives and would see every major change in favor of Greek Cypriot community as another reason to vote the next plan down, also knowing that being the bad guys does not really hurt that much. |
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Kifeas Warnings : 6 Ministerial

Joined: 26 Aug 2005 Posts: 2733 Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Viewpoint wrote: |
| -mikkie2- wrote: |
Hi Alexandre,
The front page of Politis on Sunday gave indications that the Cyprus problem will be on the agenda before the end of the year.
Those people that think that the problem will take the length of Turkish entry negotiations in the EU are wrong in my opinion.
The problems that Turkey has been facing in Europe in the last 6 months is a taste for what is to come if the problem remains unresolved and that is why a solution is needed much sooner than much later.
Minor changes to the Annan plan will be unacceptable in my view. It would seem that there is support for some of the issues raised by the Greek Cypriot side regarding property and the functioning of the unified state. Perhaps we will get a proper federation as opposed to the confederation that the current plan gives. This phase will put Papadopoulos to the test and I think (and I hope) many people will be surprised. |
EU Leverage is the name of the game, if it takes 20 years for Greek Cypriots to get what they want through accession talks, then it appears we are all in the fridge where its very cold.
The view is more pessimistic in the north, with no light at the end of the tunnel, and status quo syndrome. Of course the opposition party is now picking up this issue and will start to promote I told you so, you cannot resolve anything with Greek Cypriots attitude which many Turkish Cypriots will feel closer to their current mindset.
As for major changes to Annan plan then you can will also be guaranteeing a resounding OXI from the Turkish Cypriot side, people here are very untrusting of Greek Cypriot motives and would see every major change in favor of Greek Cypriot community as another reason to vote the next plan down, also knowing that being the bad guys does not really hurt that much. |
Then your side will loose both the eggs and the basket in the end, as turkey will immediately after be forced to either recognize the Republic of Cyprus as it is or, it will see it's EU accession process sink like the Titanic. |
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Bananiot Warnings : 1 Deputy

Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 1214 Location: Nicosia
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This is how I see things. The SG of the UN, Annan, will make another effort after the 3rd of October, for a comprehensive solution to the Cyprob. The basis for any new negotiations will no doubt be his Plan. The sore point will be the changes to it that can be accepted by both sides. The Turkish Cypriot's, quite obviously, will accept minimal changes, probably the ones outlined by AKEL in the Spring of 2004 (not sure if AKEL still accepts its own propositions for changes). Papadopoulos will push for numerous changes that alter the philosophy of the Plan. I cannot see how he can succeed in his objective given that he has no allies where it matters. Besides, his numerous changes that he envisages may just be the nail in the coffin for the Plan.
As a result, any movement on behalf of the SG will aim at pressing the Greek Cypriot side to accept the A Plan with a few changes only. This constitutes a major headache for Papadopoulos and will do everything possible to avoid getting involved with such negotiations where he cannot win, since he will either accept an Annan 6 Plan (anathema to him) or shoulder the blame for another failed attempt at a solution (he will be remembered as the partition President) which, he probably prefers, as his stated view is that the situation remaining as it is is the second best solution. Second best to what, one might ask? Certainly not to BBF. I have never believed that he cares for BBF. |
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Viewpoint Warnings : 2 Mukhtar/is

Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 971 Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| Viewpoint wrote: |
| -mikkie2- wrote: |
Hi Alexandre,
The front page of Politis on Sunday gave indications that the Cyprus problem will be on the agenda before the end of the year.
Those people that think that the problem will take the length of Turkish entry negotiations in the EU are wrong in my opinion.
The problems that Turkey has been facing in Europe in the last 6 months is a taste for what is to come if the problem remains unresolved and that is why a solution is needed much sooner than much later.
Minor changes to the Annan plan will be unacceptable in my view. It would seem that there is support for some of the issues raised by the Greek Cypriot side regarding property and the functioning of the unified state. Perhaps we will get a proper federation as opposed to the confederation that the current plan gives. This phase will put Papadopoulos to the test and I think (and I hope) many people will be surprised. |
EU Leverage is the name of the game, if it takes 20 years for Greek Cypriots to get what they want through accession talks, then it appears we are all in the fridge where its very cold.
The view is more pessimistic in the north, with no light at the end of the tunnel, and status quo syndrome. Of course the opposition party is now picking up this issue and will start to promote I told you so, you cannot resolve anything with Greek Cypriots attitude which many Turkish Cypriots will feel closer to their current mindset.
As for major changes to Annan plan then you can will also be guaranteeing a resounding OXI from the Turkish Cypriot side, people here are very untrusting of Greek Cypriot motives and would see every major change in favor of Greek Cypriot community as another reason to vote the next plan down, also knowing that being the bad guys does not really hurt that much. |
Then your side will loose both the eggs and the basket in the end, as turkey will immediately after be forced to either recognize the Republic of Cyprus as it is or, it will see it's EU accession process sink like the Titanic. |
Loosing both basket and eggs I take it you are referring to Turkeys EU aspirations and Turkish Cypriots desire for a solution?? This is not a forgone result of a resounding OXI but if it was with Turkey kicked out of EU process then there will be no need to recognize anything especially not the "Republic of Cyprus" and with that no solution not just for Turkish Cypriots but also Greek Cypriots. Its a 2 way street Kifeas what effects me means it will also effect yourselves when trying attain the ultimate goal of reaching a solution. |
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Kifeas Warnings : 6 Ministerial

Joined: 26 Aug 2005 Posts: 2733 Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Bananiot wrote: |
This is how I see things. The SG of the UN, Annan, will make another effort after the 3rd of October, for a comprehensive solution to the Cyprob. The basis for any new negotiations will no doubt be his Plan. The sore point will be the changes to it that can be accepted by both sides. The Turkish Cypriot's, quite obviously, will accept minimal changes, probably the ones outlined by AKEL in the Spring of 2004 (not sure if AKEL still accepts its own propositions for changes). Papadopoulos will push for numerous changes that alter the philosophy of the Plan. I cannot see how he can succeed in his objective given that he has no allies where it matters. Besides, his numerous changes that he envisages may just be the nail in the coffin for the Plan.
As a result, any movement on behalf of the SG will aim at pressing the Greek Cypriot side to accept the A Plan with a few changes only. This constitutes a major headache for Papadopoulos and will do everything possible to avoid getting involved with such negotiations where he cannot win, since he will either accept an Annan 6 Plan (anathema to him) or shoulder the blame for another failed attempt at a solution (he will be remembered as the partition President) which, he probably prefers, as his stated view is that the situation remaining as it is is the second best solution. Second best to what, one might ask? Certainly not to BBF. I have never believed that he cares for BBF. |
Bananiot!
Whether Papadopoullos cares for a BBF or not, is irrelevant.
If Annan is ready to scrutinize his previous monstrosity which he called a BBF proposal and turn into a balanced, logical, fair and viable solution proposal, suitable for a country that is a member of the EU, and not a third world protectorate country, and also that there will be a decent minimum respect of human rights, and if the spoiled Turkish Cypriot /Turkish leadership are also prepared to accept such a solution, then forget what Papadopoullos cares or doesn't care about, as it will be irrelevant.
Stop beating the packsaddle, only because you cannot beat the donkey! |
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Viewpoint Warnings : 2 Mukhtar/is

Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 971 Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| Bananiot wrote: |
This is how I see things. The SG of the UN, Annan, will make another effort after the 3rd of October, for a comprehensive solution to the Cyprob. The basis for any new negotiations will no doubt be his Plan. The sore point will be the changes to it that can be accepted by both sides. The Turkish Cypriot's, quite obviously, will accept minimal changes, probably the ones outlined by AKEL in the Spring of 2004 (not sure if AKEL still accepts its own propositions for changes). Papadopoulos will push for numerous changes that alter the philosophy of the Plan. I cannot see how he can succeed in his objective given that he has no allies where it matters. Besides, his numerous changes that he envisages may just be the nail in the coffin for the Plan.
As a result, any movement on behalf of the SG will aim at pressing the Greek Cypriot side to accept the A Plan with a few changes only. This constitutes a major headache for Papadopoulos and will do everything possible to avoid getting involved with such negotiations where he cannot win, since he will either accept an Annan 6 Plan (anathema to him) or shoulder the blame for another failed attempt at a solution (he will be remembered as the partition President) which, he probably prefers, as his stated view is that the situation remaining as it is is the second best solution. Second best to what, one might ask? Certainly not to BBF. I have never believed that he cares for BBF. |
Bananiot!
Whether Papadopoullos cares for a BBF or not, is irrelevant.
If Annan is ready to scrutinize his previous monstrosity which he called a BBF proposal and turn into a balanced, logical, fair and viable solution proposal, suitable for a country that is a member of the EU and that there should be a decent minimum respect of human rights, and if the spoiled Turkish Cypriot /Turkish leadership are also prepared to accept such a solution, then forget what Papadopoullos cares or doesn't care about, as it will be irrelevant.
Stop beating the packsaddle, only because you cannot beat the donkey! |
Kifeas you are under estimating the power of your own leadership, of course what Tassos thinks is important as he is your chief negotiator meaning he will not negotiate in goodfaith, we have a very good example of this with plan 5, and will produce plan 6 that again will not be acceptable to Greek Cypriots blaming the opposite side for not taking into account his demands.
Tassos is in the driving seat like it or not for Greek Cypriots and will turn the wheel in which ever direction he wants, then he will blame the passengers in the back for the result thats the Greek Cypriot way. The sad part is that he also convinces the onlookers that is was not his fault but everyone elses.
His tactics are obvious he will not risk going through another referendum he will put on an act and pay lip service to wanting a solution via UN but push hard for concessions from Turkey using EU leverage...now whos hold who hostage????theres a very remote chance that the EU will recognize this uncompromising stance and act accordingly. |
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Bananiot Warnings : 1 Deputy

Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 1214 Location: Nicosia
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In this case, who is the donkey, kifeas?
Anyway, I was only expressing my view and expected a civilised response from the members, but what does one expect to hear from the mouth of a crow?
It makes me lough when I read that little tiny wee Cyprus is playing the role of the champion of the human rights and that our glorious leader will confront the mighty of the world and their geo strategic interests.
We shall see ... |
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boomerang Warnings : 1 Deputy

Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 1133 Location: Melbourne
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| Guys, off the subject a bit, but can someone tell me what changes Tassos wants to see in the plan? |
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Viewpoint Warnings : 2 Mukhtar/is

Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 971 Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| Kifeas your last few posts have been very derogatory, you think you have the high ground and are way above everyone else, ease up man we are all human and we all have our own opinions. |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is

Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 603
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Bananiot,
I don't agree that only minimal changes will be accepted to the plan.
It is generally understood, that the property provisions need to be altered to make them more tangible for the refugees. It is also understood that the economy of the new state needs to be unified in a more concrete manner than proposed under the current plan.
Being overly dismissive of the concerns of our side will lead to another impasse.
What is needed is to convince the Turkish Cypriot leadership that their interests will not necessarily be undermined with the changes proposed. They also need to be convinced that there will be no return to past events and that they should be more trusting of the EU process and its institutions to protect their rights.
In the end, all we are doing is speculating. I believe this time around things may well be very different because the dynamics that affect Cyprus have dramatically changed in the past 2 years. |
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Viewpoint Warnings : 2 Mukhtar/is

Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 971 Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| boomerang wrote: |
| Guys, off the subject a bit, but can someone tell me what changes Tassos wants to see in the plan? |
That's a great question boom, well done  |
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Bananiot Warnings : 1 Deputy

Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 1214 Location: Nicosia
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| I think Prentergast gave the answer to this question in his recent report to the SG after he visited Cyprus and listened (orally if you please) to the concerns of Papadopoulos. |
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boomerang Warnings : 1 Deputy

Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 1133 Location: Melbourne
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| Viewpoint wrote: |
| boomerang wrote: |
| Guys, off the subject a bit, but can someone tell me what changes Tassos wants to see in the plan? |
That's a great question boom, well done  |
No problem...You guys seem to be arguing all the ifs and buts, but noone is coming out saying he wants this, he wants that... |
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