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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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| Birkibrisli wrote: |
Mikkie2, Not that it is of great importance but I am of Turkish Cypriot background originally from the remote mountainous region of Paphos.But have lived in Australia from the age of 17. |
Thanks for clarifying your background. I am a Greek Cypriot of British origin but have grown up in Cyprus at around the period of 1974.
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
| I agree things are complicated with so many players and so many different national interests.The point I am trying to make in my posts is that nobody will look after our own interests if we as Cypriots do not do it. |
I agree 100% with your point. We have to think of ourselves as Cypriots and of our collective interests. Unfortunately for the past few decades we have been doing anything but!
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
| Politicians,including poor old Tpapa,can only achieve what is politically possible given the circumstances.That goes for Erdogan as well.I have personally grave doubts about Erdogan's motivations.He is not a nationalist like Ecevit or Bahcheli or Yilmaz or Chiller for that matter.He comes from an Islamic background who sees democracy as "a train you take to take you where you want to go" in his very own words. |
Democracy is not a pick and mix in my opinion. You either have it 100% or you don't. If Erdogan does indeed think that it is then as you say, one has to question his motivations.
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
| At the moment he seem to be stuck on his "train" and not able to get off.My theory (and"brother" would approve of this as he thinks Cypriots are prone to conspiracy theories!) is that he is using the EU negotiations to gain time and remove the Army's influence on politics in Turkey,before walking away using the recognition of Cyprus as against national interests.Where will he go then?Towards the Islamic world of course. |
Removing the influence of the Army will take a long tome imo. The deep state is too entrenched. If he turns to the Islamic world then that can only bring misery in the long run. The Islamic world is sandwitched between the booming Asian economies on the one side and the West on the other. You can only see the pressure that the Islamic countries will be under.
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
| Under this script Cyprus will remain partitioned or at best become a confederated republic.A disaster especially for Turkish Cypriots,but also for Greek Cypriots as Cyprus will remain a running boil. |
Again, I will have to agree with you here.
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
| Greek Cypriots should support those Turkish Cypriots who want to preserve their Cypriotness by all possible means. |
Unfortunately this is easier said than done. The nationalist elements in each community see to that!
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
| And Turkish Cypriots should start jumping up and down demanding to return to the 1960 constitution or a BBF solution as soon as possible. |
I also agree with this. However, when a community is being taught to hate anything that has to do with the Republic of Cyprus this will be difficult to achieve. The only way is to promote contacts between people and for the RoCy to try and do more to assist those Turkish Cypriot's that wish to exercise their rights.
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
The time is running against those of us who want a unified Cyprus.And by putting too much hope in the EU process to force Turkey into recognition Greek Cypriots might be buttering Erdogan's bread.  |
I partly agree with this. I do think however, that the EU has made a difference. Without it you would not have had the attempts for solution before Cyprus joined the EU. Now that we are in the EU the pressure is still on to come to an early resolution because to not do so would affect wider issues than Greek-Turkish relations. The Cyprus problem, whether we like it or not, has become a European problem. This should be a catalyst but like anything, if you don't take any risks, you won't have the chance to gain anything. |
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Birkibrisli
Deputy
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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Mikkie2 wrote:
| Quote: |
Removing the influence of the Army will take a long tome imo. The deep state is too entrenched. If he turns to the Islamic world then that can only bring misery in the long run. The Islamic world is sandwitched between the booming Asian economies on the one side and the West on the other. You can only see the pressure that the Islamic countries will be under.
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I agree it will take time to reduce the Army's influence in Turkey,but Erdogan has all the time in the world.He is playing his cards right so he should be reelected in the next elections.Parliamentary opposition is virtually nonexistent,the CHP(Kemalist Party) being so ineffective and divided.And the European accession talks will take at least 10 years,possibly 15 to 20,if Erdogan drags his feet.If my theory is right,turning to the Islamic world will be an ideologic decision,nothing to do with the outcome. I really hope I am wrong,Cyprus and Cypriots(especially Turkish- speaking ones) cannot afford to wait that long in deep fridge. |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| mikkie2 wrote: |
However, when a community is being taught to hate anything that has to do with the Republic of Cyprus this will be difficult to achieve.
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You're right, mikkie2. Turkish Cypriots were taught by Greek Cypriots to hate the Republic of Cyprus after years of exclusion and injustice imposed on them. |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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gabs
Villager
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 98
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| ok so iz evryone happy now, or has anyone got any more spanners? |
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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8920
Location: London/Cyprus
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| gabs wrote: |
| ok so iz evryone happy now, or has anyone got any more spanners? |
Well this issue of not being able to 'veto' the Republic of Cyprus from organisations like NATO is getting stuck in their throat aswell. |
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gabs
Villager
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 98
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Republic of Cyprus wants to join nato????????????
iz that right? Republic of Cyprus wants to join nato? |
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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8920
Location: London/Cyprus
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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Actually, it is the EU and US that want Cyprus to be a member of NATO and Partnership for Peace.
The problem is, the EU and NATO security structures have some commonality. Some high level EU/NATO meetings have actually been canceled because of Turkeys refusal to allow Cyprus to participate in these joint meetings. It is actually having a very disruptive effect on the business of NATO and the EU when it comes to military matters.
That is why Britain and the US have voiced their concerns about this to Turkey. This is not just the RoCy being awkward. Other players are involved in this that want a resolution to this matter. |
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gabs
Villager
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 98
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mikkie2
thankx for the response.
do you know anymore about these british and u.s. concerns? |
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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8920
Location: London/Cyprus
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| -mikkie2- wrote: |
Actually, it is the EU and US that want Cyprus to be a member of NATO and Partnership for Peace.
The problem is, the EU and NATO security structures have some commonality. Some high level EU/NATO meetings have actually been canceled because of Turkeys refusal to allow Cyprus to participate in these joint meetings. It is actually having a very disruptive effect on the business of NATO and the EU when it comes to military matters.
That is why Britain and the US have voiced their concerns about this to Turkey. This is not just the RoCy being awkward. Other players are involved in this that want a resolution to this matter. |
This is the first i have heard of US and UK wanting the Republic of Cyprus in NATO, like gabs asked, can you give us more info. with some links to that information. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| brother wrote: |
| gabs wrote: |
| ok so iz evryone happy now, or has anyone got any more spanners? |
Well this issue of not being able to 'veto' the Republic of Cyprus from organisations like NATO is getting stuck in their throat aswell. |
Brother,
The Republic of Cyprus has asked and gained a closure in Turkey's EU accession negotiating framework that Turkey should stop blocking (vetoing) Cyprus from various international organizations and bodies in which Turkey has a Veto power, one of which is NATO but not only.
Is this an unreasonable demand? |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Kifeas wrote: |
Brother,
The Republic of Cyprus has asked and gained a closure in Turkey's EU accession negotiating framework that Turkey should stop blocking (vetoing) Cyprus from various international organizations and bodies in which Turkey has a Veto power, one of which is NATO but not only.
Is this an unreasonable demand? |
It is an unreasonable demand because it seeks to force Turkey to treat the Greek Cypriot only run Republic of Cyprus, with no Turkish Cypriot element in it, as if it is the legitimate government of all of Cyprus. This is exactly what Turkey disputes.
Is it any more reasonable to expect Turkey NOT to block Republic of Cyprus membership to international organisations unless there is a settlement than it is to expect the Republic of Cyprus NOT to block Turkish entry into the EU without a settlement (or anywhere else that the Republic of Cyprus could block such membership?) ?
If the Republic of Cyprus has a 'right' to say Turkey can not join the EU unless they deal with our concerns why should Turkey have no right to say the Republic of Cyprus can not join NATO unless they deal with our concerns? |
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Xenos 2Fan
Warnings : 5
Ministerial
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 3499
Location: Dallas,Texas/Mersin, Turkey
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[
If the Republic of Cyprus has a 'right' to say Turkey can not join the EU unless they deal with our concerns why should Turkey have no right to say the Republic of Cyprus can not join NATO unless they deal with our concerns?[/quote]
My sentiments exactly. It's okay for Republic of Cyprus to do it but everyone shouts "foul" when Turkey exercises her powers.
Look people, let's face it. It's an uneven playing field tilted in favor of the Republic of Cyprus. It's a hypocrisy no matter how you slice it. |
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gabs
Villager
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 98
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2Fan
No my friend - Evidently some Europeans cant recognise hypocrisy when they themselves are guilty of it. Nor double standards. Nor human rights violations...............it just doesn’t apply to them, they are a law unto themselves, incapable of committing such acts.
Last edited by gabs on Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:43 am; edited 2 times in total |
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