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brother
Warnings : 3
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Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8920
Location: London/Cyprus
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cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
Moderator
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5357
Location: National Forest, England
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| Whether they will accept us or not, or make a referendum about it, it is all up to them. We are going to start these negotiations. And we are going to enter the EU easily." |
To be honest, what he's saying doesn't make much sense... 'whether they accept us or not... we'll enter the EU'... I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way... the EU is not something that you accede to by simply meeting a set of prescribed conditions, it requires the agreement of all of the existing member states. It's not something that you can force your way into through sheer force of will, it requires concessions and conciliation with the member states who must agree to your accession.
I'm a firm supporter of Turkey's membership, but I think the government is desperately trying to play to the domestic crowd, in order to prove that the Turkish government is strong and will defend Turkish rights. To be honest, outside of Turkey, this sort of language doesn't play well and will only strengthen the argument of those who say that Turkey doesn't yet know how to 'play European'. |
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brother
Warnings : 3
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Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8920
Location: London/Cyprus
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I agree with most of your statements but this one
| Quote: |
| this sort of language doesn't play well and will only strengthen the argument of those who say that Turkey doesn't yet know how to 'play European'. |
All EU countries and especially France play to their domestic crowds and say what they want to hear, i would imagine the most EU leaders would understand why statements like this are made and the reasons behind them. |
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boomerang
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne
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| "We will enter EU for rights, freedoms, reforms and economy |
Why does Turkey need the EU to deliver?
And what is going to happen with the Kurd issue?...because the PKK imo are only going to intensify their efforts in order to extract more concensions which the EU will probably endorse...How is Turkey going to react to PKK demands?
I think the article is all posturing...there is no doubt the negotiations will start on the 3rd, but I think it will be one hell of a bum fight between the EU and Turkey. ..As far as entering, I do not think so...Turkey will quit long before and she will be gratefull for the priveledge partnership, what ever that means. |
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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8920
Location: London/Cyprus
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| boomerang wrote: |
| Quote: |
| "We will enter EU for rights, freedoms, reforms and economy |
Why does Turkey need the EU to deliver?
And what is going to happen with the Kurd issue?...because the PKK imo are only going to intensify their efforts in order to extract more concensions which the EU will probably endorse...How is Turkey going to react to PKK demands?
I think the article is all posturing...there is no doubt the negotiations will start on the 3rd, but I think it will be one hell of a bum fight between the EU and Turkey. ..As far as entering, I do not think so...Turkey will quit long before and she will be gratefull for the priveledge partnership, what ever that means. |
Turkey already has a privilaged pertnership in the customs union but will the EU let her give up, we will find out soon enough. |
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boomerang
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne
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| brother wrote: |
| boomerang wrote: |
| Quote: |
| "We will enter EU for rights, freedoms, reforms and economy |
Why does Turkey need the EU to deliver?
And what is going to happen with the Kurd issue?...because the PKK imo are only going to intensify their efforts in order to extract more concensions which the EU will probably endorse...How is Turkey going to react to PKK demands?
I think the article is all posturing...there is no doubt the negotiations will start on the 3rd, but I think it will be one hell of a bum fight between the EU and Turkey. ..As far as entering, I do not think so...Turkey will quit long before and she will be gratefull for the priveledge partnership, what ever that means. |
Turkey already has a privilaged pertnership in the customs union but will the EU let her give up, we will find out soon enough. |
I think so Bro...I can't see France and Germany loosing the desision making in the EU...Turkey with in 10 years will surpass these two countries in population and she will probably have a big say in the EU...Can you honestly sit there and see that happen?..And not mentioning that Turkey is a veru nationalistic proud country...She will argue all the way in every issue for the next 10 years...something is gonna give...But no doubt Turkey will benefit along the way, the longer the better. |
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cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
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Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5357
Location: National Forest, England
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| brother wrote: |
I agree with most of your statements but this one
| Quote: |
| this sort of language doesn't play well and will only strengthen the argument of those who say that Turkey doesn't yet know how to 'play European'. |
All EU countries and especially France play to their domestic crowds and say what they want to hear, i would imagine the most EU leaders would understand why statements like this are made and the reasons behind them. |
True, but the difference is that they are already members of the EU. For a prospective member to: (i) Openly state their non-recognition of an existing member state, and; (ii) Claim that they will join no matter what the existing members think, is uncharted territory. Added to this the prosecution that is underway against a Turkish author accused of sedition against the state, it all adds up to a country thumbing its nose at the EU. |
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boomerang
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne
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| The PKK and the Armenian issues will be a large hurdles to overcome in the next 10 years...Hopefully the Cyprus issue will be solved. |
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Xenos 2Fan
Warnings : 5
Ministerial
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 3499
Location: Dallas,Texas/Mersin, Turkey
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| boomerang wrote: |
| The PKK and the Armenian issues will be a large hurdles to overcome in the next 10 years...Hopefully the Cyprus issue will be solved. |
Imo, the cyprus issue will get sorted out long before the armenian and kurdish (not the pkk) issues. It has to as it affects the immediate future of Turkey.
We have to distinguish between the pkk and the kurds in the political arena. The EU and the US considers the PKK as a terrorist organization. |
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Ixtanbul
Villager
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Turkey
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I'm afraid Kemal Unakitan is a clown that talks without thinking. No respectable person would take his words seriously... |
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boomerang
Warnings : 1
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Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne
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| 2Fan wrote: |
| boomerang wrote: |
| The PKK and the Armenian issues will be a large hurdles to overcome in the next 10 years...Hopefully the Cyprus issue will be solved. |
Imo, the cyprus issue will get sorted out long before the armenian and kurdish (not the pkk) issues. It has to as it affects the immediate future of Turkey.
We have to distinguish between the pkk and the kurds in the political arena. The EU and the US considers the PKK as a terrorist organization. |
Yes 2Fan, poor choice of words I am sorry...Pkk indeed is outlawed and condemn by everyone...I meant to say Kurds |
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Xenos 2Fan
Warnings : 5
Ministerial
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 3499
Location: Dallas,Texas/Mersin, Turkey
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No worries friend.  |
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gabs
Villager
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 98
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i assume that the contradiction of terms is due to misinterpretation.
i feel that turkey shall join the eu at some point.
britain also had years and years of the french non prior to joining.
its all about petty bargaining points now.
personally id like to see erdogan tell the french where to stick their eu, pack his bags and head straight to Russia, India, China, Brazil and the USA.
the french may then awaken to forthcoming realities. |
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cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
Moderator
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5357
Location: National Forest, England
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| gabs wrote: |
| the french may then awaken to forthcoming realities. |
To be honest, I think they'd be relieved... my parents currently (and unfortunately) live in France and the French view of Turkey is generally quite distorted and based upon colonial experiences in former Ottoman territories. Chirac and his successors will also be forced to take on the extremely powerful and influential Armenian lobby in France, whose influence is akin to that of the Jewish lobby in the US. Turkey's path to the EU will mean enormous difficulties in Paris, and the French leaders would have to fight popular opinion the whole way. I think the French would be far more happy concentrating on deepening the current EU, than on a process of continual enlargement, which makes further integration steps more difficult to achieve... and more difficult for the Franco-German axis to lead. |
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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8920
Location: London/Cyprus
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| cannedmoose wrote: |
| gabs wrote: |
| the french may then awaken to forthcoming realities. |
To be honest, I think they'd be relieved... my parents currently (and unfortunately) live in France and the French view of Turkey is generally quite distorted and based upon colonial experiences in former Ottoman territories. Chirac and his successors will also be forced to take on the extremely powerful and influential Armenian lobby in France, whose influence is akin to that of the Jewish lobby in the US. Turkey's path to the EU will mean enormous difficulties in Paris, and the French leaders would have to fight popular opinion the whole way. I think the French would be far more happy concentrating on deepening the current EU, than on a process of continual enlargement, which makes further integration steps more difficult to achieve... and more difficult for the Franco-German axis to lead. |
I understand what you are saying but the French surely can see the potential economic and millatary gains that would make them think twice about losing Turkey you would imagine.
But as they say 'one mans loss is anothers gain'. |
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