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| Have the Turkish Cypriot become a minorty in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus? |
| Yes! |
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50% |
[ 4 ] |
| NO! |
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25% |
[ 2 ] |
| Will be some time in the future! |
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25% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 8 |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
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Izcan says that the Turkish Cypriots have become a minority in their own country
Turkish Cypriot daily Kibris newspaper (19.12.07) reports that Izzet Izcan, general secretary of the United Cyprus Party (BKP), visited yesterday the occupied Mia Milia village and said that population is brought to the occupied areas of the island under the pretext of bringing working force. He noted that the Turkish Cypriots have become minority in their own country and added: By saying Turk comes Turk goes, they are trying to annihilate our community, our identity and our culture. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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| Why do you post the question? I think it is a fact that the settlers outnumber Turkish Cypriots, am I wrong? |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| stavrizatz wrote: |
| Why do you post the question? I think it is a fact that the settlers outnumber Turkish Cypriots, am I wrong? |
If you are referring to citizens of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus then at least according to the last Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus census, which you may not believe of course, then yes you are wrong. There are various threads that show the results of that census detailing the number of citizens with 2 cypriot parents, one cypriot parent or no cypriot parents. In very rough terms that census puts the ratio of Turkish Cypriot citizens to non Turkish Cypriot citizens at about 2:1.
I personally think these numbers are about right, from my own personal subjective impression 'on the ground' and also for the 'circumstantial' evidence that 'settlers' to not dominant Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus political parties or government. In fact 'settlers' in government are vastly less represented in government than the 2:1 ratio. For me if there really were more 'settlers' citizens in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus than Turkish Cypriot citizens I would expect these settlers to dominant in government and they do not come close to doing that. In reality the 'settlers' in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus as a group are economically and politically much weaker than Turkish Cypriot citizens.
I also do not really trust peoples subjective impressions of how many 'settlers' there are. It is a reality that everywhere in the world the general perception of how many 'foreigners' there are in a country is always vastly over the actual reality. The UK is a classic example where the general perception of how many 'asians' there are in the UK is vastly higher than the actual %. |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
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Erolz
I think stavrizatz may be referring to Turkish Cypriot who are really 100% Turkish Cypriot and not just anyone who has become a Turkish Cypriot through Denktash:
I think stavrizatz is looking for Turkish Cypriot with true Turkish Cypriot blood! (Father, Grandfather and great Grandfather have been born in Cyprus):
SO if you take true blue Turkish Cypriot there may only be 40% left in Cyprus!
And the rest are just Turkish Cypriot clones to help populate the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus to show the world that the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus are multiplying when in fact they are disintegrating!
cheers
PS This may also apply to the South as well? True Blue Greek Cypriot? and the cloned Greek Cypriot! |
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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
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How many return?
Maybe they are ONLY waiting for the 74'parents to die because most of the 74' Grandparents have died:
I am only waiting for Denktash and Clerides to kick the bucket so I can open my 1974 Penfolds Grange!(Over $1500 per bottle)!
cheers
PS If Kissinger kicks it! The Beers Boys and Girls are on me! DUFF beer! I have 2 slabs and they are worth over $500 each can! |
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RudeGal
Senior Villager
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 385
Location: London
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It is tiring to see the same old myth (whoever purports it) that Turkish Cypriots are a minority in their own homeland, mere propaganda based on false assumptions. Yes, Denktas and others did encourage settlement of mainland Turks, but anyone who spends any time in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus can see that Turkish Cypriots are the overwhelming majority here. And the census figures back this up.
My own very large extended family are moving back from the UK en masse. My cousins want to see their kids grow up in North Cyprus (our parents are originally from Limassol or Paphos). So don't believe the false hype from this marginal political figure Izzet Izcan, who ignores the facts for his own political ends.
As for this "pure blood" business, I am deeply disturbed by such racist approaches to those living in North Cyprus. The island has been a stopover for multiple tribes of people for hundreds of years. There is diversity in the South, why should there not be in the North? All welcome, as long as they respect the national laws and have positive contributions to make. And lets face it, the settlers have the worst of the worst in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. The most undersirable jobs, the least pay and bad working conditions. No different to immigrants, past & present, worldwide.
And for the record, when my dad left Cyprus in 1960 to study in the UK, he had a Republic of Cyprus passport. When he tried to return in 1970, he was given a 4 week visa!!!! (we still have the passport). The then wholly Greek Cypriot regime had a policy to push and keep out Turkish Cypriots from their own homeland, so people in glass houses - think again! Greek Cypriots are as guilty of meddling with the demographics as Denktas - do bear in mind when you start such threads! |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
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RG firstly happy new year to you and your family: Cheers
2nd: " Yes, Denktas and others did encourage settlement of mainland Turks" Dentash only did this for 2 reasons:
1: To make sure he had the votes:
2: To make sure IF the Turkish Cypriot ever asked for a united Cyprus the settlers would say no!
Denktash once said : "I Rather be a president of a country no recognized rather than a vice president"
Glory, Glory Hallelujah!
My grandfather came to Australia in 1923 and went in 1973 and lost everything he owned in Lapithos/Kyrenia!
AND he was an Australia and British citizen: He wasn't even a Cypriot one! So figure that one out?
RG there has NEVER been a Cypriot leader who has put the people first!
It is usually Greece, Turkey, his friends and HIS pocket!
cheers again! |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
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" It is usually Greece, Turkey, his friends and HIS pocket!"
cheers again!
PS not necessarily in that order! |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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| pg wrote: |
http://www.talkcyprus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5233
256k residents
...77k temporary
...178k citizens
......120k two Cypriot parents
......12k one Cypriot parent
......46k no Cypriot parent
.........30k born outside Cyprus
.........16k born in Cyprus |
So according to these statistics if we accept them as the most reliable source, there are 120k Turkish Cypriots, 123k settlers and 12k mixed. So Turkish Cypriots are marginally a minority in the occupied areas. Also I heared from Turkish Cypriot friends, but I don't know how true that is, that they fear settlers are more than 200K! |
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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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| RudeGal wrote: |
It is tiring to see the same old myth (whoever purports it) that Turkish Cypriots are a minority in their own homeland, mere propaganda based on false assumptions. Yes, Denktas and others did encourage settlement of mainland Turks, but anyone who spends any time in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus can see that Turkish Cypriots are the overwhelming majority here. And the census figures back this up.
|
When 120k of 256k of the population (47%) is "completely" indigenous then arguing the case can hardly be called 'mere propaganda'. This aspect is mainly related to the cultural influence of this 'settler' group on northern Cyprus.
(Let's not even talk about the fact that most of the indigenous population of northern Cyprus is Greek Cypriot, and that most Turkish Cypriots are from other parts of Cyprus.)
At the same time, of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus voters 120k+12k of 178k (74%) should obviously have the right to vote, so it is difficult to claim the Turkish Cypriots are outvoted by 'settlers'.
Moving on to a solution, and assuming the 77k temporary residents will 'agree' to move back to their country of origin (as all temporary residents of the Republic of Cyprus do sooner or later), the statistics also show that the rest of the "settlers issue" is not very significant - and this agrees with your 'pure blood' rejection.
There is 'only' 30k of Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus citizens that are born outside Cyprus - and I assume anyone born in Cyprus will be 'allowed' citizenship of the new Cyprus. In addition, there are 12k children of mixed marriages. Assuming 2 kids per family, there is 6k 'settlers' married to Turkish Cypriots - and these will obviously stay too.
Just 24k 'settlers' left to deal with on an island with a population of about a million..., and these would make up only 24k of 178k (13%) of the Turkish Cypriot community voters.
In short, the only really complicated part is the question if the 77k will leave or not. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1644
Location: Canada
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| I think that a radical shift in thinking toward a normalisation of relations and towards confidence building, requires the Parties that run for the Government of the Republic of Cyprus, to act in a manner where it can be seen that they support the basic principals of the Constitution of 1960, in real terms. That would require them to create and develop the mechanisms within their own infrastructure where they provide a voter, qualified because they are a citizen of the State, wherever they live, a representative to vote for. In this regard it becomes irrelavant if there is a governing body in the north or not, Turkish Cypriots will not be isloated, in terms of their Individual Rights, and as a minority, they will be recognised, and respected for having their own special needs. |
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RudeGal
Senior Villager
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 385
Location: London
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| pg wrote: |
When 120k of 256k of the population (47%) is "completely" indigenous then arguing the case can hardly be called 'mere propaganda'. This aspect is mainly related to the cultural influence of this 'settler' group on northern Cyprus.
(Let's not even talk about the fact that most of the indigenous population of northern Cyprus is Greek Cypriot, and that most Turkish Cypriots are from other parts of Cyprus.)
At the same time, of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus voters 120k+12k of 178k (74%) should obviously have the right to vote, so it is difficult to claim the Turkish Cypriots are outvoted by 'settlers'.
Moving on to a solution, and assuming the 77k temporary residents will 'agree' to move back to their country of origin (as all temporary residents of the Republic of Cyprus do sooner or later), the statistics also show that the rest of the "settlers issue" is not very significant - and this agrees with your 'pure blood' rejection.
There is 'only' 30k of Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus citizens that are born outside Cyprus - and I assume anyone born in Cyprus will be 'allowed' citizenship of the new Cyprus. In addition, there are 12k children of mixed marriages. Assuming 2 kids per family, there is 6k 'settlers' married to Turkish Cypriots - and these will obviously stay too.
Just 24k 'settlers' left to deal with on an island with a population of about a million..., and these would make up only 24k of 178k (13%) of the Turkish Cypriot community voters.
In short, the only really complicated part is the question if the 77k will leave or not. |
My understanding is that of the 77K temp residents, most are international students, the Turkish army, or tourists (please correct if I am wrong), and so their presence is temporary now, let alone under any possible united CYprus solution!
For everyone else - and I am taking UK/EU norms to consider: everyone who is from Cypriot parentage (one or both) also has no issue in staying on as citizen, as are those born in Cyprus. So of 178K citizens (of which Turkish Cypriots are defo NOT a minority - hence any attempt to assert is propaganda), we are left with 30K that are potentially a problem. I have no idea how long these 30K people have been on the island, but assuming most present through marriage or long-term residence of North Cyprus or are EU nationals, then can we realistically think number of Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus citizens that are issue are more than 10K in number?
Which is why for me, this whole thread on Turkish Cypriots being a minority and assertion that we have a "settler" problem is a red herring. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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I was searching for demographics of Cyprus to look at the migration rate and how many migrants arrived in Cyprus in the last few years and I found some scary answers:
| Quote: |
| ...after the Turkish invasion of 1974, about 150,000 Turks from Anatolia were transferred or decided to settle in the north. This has changed the actual demographic structure of the island. Northern Cyprus now claims 265,100 inhabitants,[36] closer to 30% of the population of the island. The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus has granted citizenship to these immigrants: however, as the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is not recognised by the Republic or the international community (with the exception of Turkey), its power to create new citizens is not recognised and the newcomers retain Turkish passports. |
full text here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus#Demographics
In statistical Service of Republic of Cyprus http://www.pio.gov.cy/mof/cystat/statistics.nsf/All/0B887F0445E0A514C2256D42002A421F/$file/DEMOGRAPHIC%20REPORT%202003.pdf?OpenElement
The citizens of the Republic of Cyprus and permanent residence are:
- Greek Cypriots: 646,900 and 79.1%
-Turkish Cypriots: 87,800 and 10.7%
-foreign citizens: 83,500 and 10.2%
if we add to total population 150,000 settlers and 100,000 foreign workers in Cyprus the foreign population of Cyprus is approx. 330,000 in comparison to the native population 735,000. Therefore 30% of the total residence in Cyprus are foreigners and I am saying that because I am xenophobic but because such drastic changes in the demographics could have negative effects in the culture and lifestyle. Any Comments? |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
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Does anyone know when the last census happened in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus?
And if so what did it yield?
All I know is that there are a hell of a lot of Turkish Cypriot in Australia and Britain!
cheers |
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