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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 952
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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City wrote:
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| But since you come up with this I can tell you that it were indeed the people of Germany that made the wall come down. No politicians, no outside powers did it. |
Likely I believe the people can make the difference in Cyprus. But again 800,000 Cypriots cannot force Turkey out  |
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city
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 3423
Location: Larnaca area
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| stavrizatz wrote: |
| Likely I believe the people can make the difference in Cyprus. But again 800,000 Cypriots cannot force Turkey out |
Exactly, that's what I was saying. The people make the difference and they should take their destiny in their own hands and not wait for external powers to solve the problem.
You are right, the 800k in today's circumstances can not force Turkey out. But if the same 800k stand together and find a common ground as to what they want for their own country and how the future can be designed then no one can deny them that. International bodies will support such a move and to say it bluntly, Turkish troops weren't needed anymore. |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| stavrizatz wrote: |
Likely I believe the people can make the difference in Cyprus. But again 800,000 Cypriots cannot force Turkey out
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The usual ignorant misconception that Turkish troops is the only problem in Cyprus... |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Mete wrote: |
| stavrizatz wrote: |
Likely I believe the people can make the difference in Cyprus. But again 800,000 Cypriots cannot force Turkey out
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The usual ignorant misconception that Turkish troops is the only problem in Cyprus... |
I have to agree. To me the presence of Turkish Troops in North Cyprus is a consequence of the Cyprus problem not a cause of it. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 952
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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City I agree, also there is allready work done on that and much more to be done in the future.
The Unite Cyprus Platform:
http://www.talkcyprus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=76541&highlight=#76541
There will be seminars in Ledra Palace in October and guest speakers will attend from all over the world. Among others a South African writter who was involved with reconcilliation programs between black and apartites in SA. Most likely I will also be in Cyprus for this projects and it will be pleaseful to see other members of this forum there. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 952
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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I know I am ignorant erolz and mete... only Turkish Cypriots know the truth!
All I am trying to say is that it is one thing agreeing and it is another getting turkey out. |
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Get Real!
Warnings : 3
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 325
Location: Nicosia
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| city wrote: |
| But if the same 800k stand together and find a common ground as to what they want for their own country and how the future can be designed then no one can deny them that. |
If the East Berliners were also half Russian and hell-bent on amalgamating with the USSR, so as to resemble the situation in Cyprus more, I would’ve like to have seen your people apply all those wonderful ideals you posted earlier and here.
Any illusions of a complex inter-communal political arrangement being implemented in Cyprus is now history, Turkey’s EU make-believe journey is over, and it is now a race to get the upper hand in technology, political influence, and in the overall balance of power because unfortunately it’s become apparent that Cyprus can only be liberated in the same way it was enslaved… through bloodshed. |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Get Real! wrote: |
| Any illusions of a complex inter-communal political arrangement being implemented in Cyprus is now history, Turkey’s EU make-believe journey is over, and it is now a race to get the upper hand in technology, political influence, and in the overall balance of power because unfortunately it’s become apparent that Cyprus can only be liberated in the same way it was enslaved… through bloodshed. |
This is exactly the same (historical) argument as the Turkish and Turkish Cypriot 'hawks' give. All attempts at an inter communal political arrangement failed and the only way left that the Turkish Cypriot community could be liberated from Greek Cypriot dominance in its own shared homeland was via force of arms. The difference between these 'hawks' and yourself, in essence, is they had the will, means, opportunity and ability to change the status quo through force of arms and you do not. Not then, not now and doubtfully in the foreseeable future. Get real ! |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| Get Real! wrote: |
If the East Berliners were also half Russian and hell-bent on amalgamating with the USSR, so as to resemble the situation in Cyprus more, I would’ve like to have seen your people apply all those wonderful ideals you posted earlier and here.
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And if West Berliners did not consider East Berliners as Berliners and if they wanted Germany unite with some motherland as dictated by the majority, and if they used force and intimidation in order to make East Berliners agree to their selfish desires in the name of democracy, then you're right, we could compare it more closely to Cyprus.
| Get Real! wrote: |
Cyprus can only be liberated in the same way it was enslaved… through bloodshed.
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Well, then..a big GOOD LUCK to you. |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| erolz wrote: |
Not then, not now and doubtfully in the foreseeable future. Get real !
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Isn't it ironic Erol?  |
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Get Real!
Warnings : 3
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 325
Location: Nicosia
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| erolz wrote: |
| The difference between these 'hawks' and yourself, in essence, is they had the will, means, opportunity and ability to change the status quo through force of arms and you do not. Not then, not now and doubtfully in the foreseeable future. Get real ! |
We are very much aware of Turkey's size, manpower, and military expenditure, etc, so when push goes to shove I think it will be Turkey that will have the most surprises as she is the one that underestimates the Republic of Cyprus and not the other way round.
Most wars don't last longer than a month and the Republic of Cyprus can muster around 100,000 men, have stockpiles of modern firepower and equipment…
http://www.army.gov.cy/index.php?id=227
…including the ability to strike deep into southern Turkey with ballistic missiles so all southern Turkish naval ports that can be used to provide further reinforcements can be leveled. The Turkish air force can be countered by the newly acquired French Mistral S2A technology (this is actually the world’s finest S2A), and last but not least the GS’s have every reason to fight to the end as they have nowhere else to go anyway.
On the other hand, Turkey’s fragile political nature coupled with the shock of fierce resistance and that of the fight spilling onto Turkish soil with civilian casualties could make the Turkish regime capitulate from embarrassment and scurry to the negotiating table as they will most likely be expecting a re-run of July 1974!
Here’s a breakdown of recent sizes of forces on the island…
“Greeks”
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National Guard 10,000
Greek Cypriot Reservists 88,000
Greek ELDIK ?
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98,000
“Turks”
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Turkish Cypriot Soldiers 4,000
Turkish Cypriot Reservists 26,000
Turkish Military 39,000
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69,000
I haven’t bothered including any Greeks because I don’t ever see them coming to Cyprus’ aid given that they couldn’t even look after one of their Aegean rocks (Imia) not too long ago.
So is Turkey REALLY invincible against Cyprus? I don’t think so. |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| Get Real! wrote: |
On the other hand, Turkey’s fragile political nature coupled with the shock of fierce resistance and that of the fight spilling onto Turkish soil with civilian casualties could make the Turkish regime capitulate from embarrassment and scurry to the negotiating table as they will most likely be expecting a re-run of July 1974!
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It's so sad...you sincerely believe that you have any chance against Turkey's military. What you explained below will give Turkey even more reason to bomb the hell out of any major towns in the south. And here's some quote from Wikipedia to let you know what you're up against because it seems like you clueless.
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The Turkish Armed Forces is the second largest standing armed force in NATO, after the U.S. Armed Forces, with a combined strength of 1,043,550 uniformed personnel serving in its five branches
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And you think your 100.000 semi professional soldiers will scare Turkey? |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| I think you have left the realm of reason entirely GR |
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Get Real!
Warnings : 3
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 325
Location: Nicosia
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| Mete wrote: |
It's so sad...you sincerely believe that you have any chance against Turkey's military. What you explained below will give Turkey even more reason to bomb the hell out of any major towns in the south. And here's some quote from Wikipedia to let you know what you're up against because it seems like you clueless.
| Quote: |
The Turkish Armed Forces is the second largest standing armed force in NATO, after the U.S. Armed Forces, with a combined strength of 1,043,550 uniformed personnel serving in its five branches
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And you think your 100.000 semi professional soldiers will scare Turkey? |
“Clueless” are those people that use the Wikipedia for this kind of information so here’s a decent source for military analysis…
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/active-force.htm
Regards, GR. |
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Get Real!
Warnings : 3
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 325
Location: Nicosia
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| erolz wrote: |
| I think you have left the realm of reason entirely GR |
And your "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" hasn't?  |
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