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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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| mikkie , the coalitions that will be formed in the second round , irrespective of who the two winners are, will simply once again show that no political party really cares about the cyppro. |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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| Well cypezokyli, its about time the electorate woke up to the stupid games that are being played. If the electorate is meek and stupid and simply follows what they are told then Cyprus is going to go through much, much worse. |
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DM
Villager
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 26
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| cypezokyli wrote: |
| mikkie , the coalitions that will be formed in the second round , irrespective of who the two winners are, will simply once again show that no political party really cares about the cyppro. |
One way or another in order for a candidate to get elected he needs the support of more than one party, hence every candidate will have to negotiate in the second round. However, as I said earlier for me the most likely scenario is a Christofias Vs Casoulides 2nd round.
As for Akel and the decision not to leave the government earlier, one needs to analyse this a bit more thouroughly. If we assume that Akel left the government earlier, who do you think Tassos would have brought in to fill the vaccum? Well, you guessed right, EUROKO would have been brought in, with all the concequences that such an action means. If people think that Tassos has been stubborn and inflexible with regards to the Cyprus Problem, imagine how things would have been is Sillouris and Koutsou were in the Cabinet Office.
For me Akel should have ledt the government in late Autumn 2006 when it became obvious without any doubt that Tassos was following his own agenda not only with regards to the Cyprus Problem but also with regards to socioeconomic policies. Now why this did not happen is a thing for Christofias to answer, however I think that it is better late than never. |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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let us assume that we forgive christofias for being late.
shouldnt he at least partly admit a "mea culpa" ? |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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| Quote: |
| If we assume that Akel left the government earlier, who do you think Tassos would have brought in to fill the vaccum? Well, you guessed right, EUROKO would have been brought in, with all the concequences that such an action means. |
Well, no. It would have forced an early election. If AKEL pulled out, then Papadopoulos would have NO madate to pursue his policies.
| Quote: |
| For me Akel should have ledt the government in late Autumn 2006 when it became obvious without any doubt that Tassos was following his own agenda not only with regards to the Cyprus Problem but also with regards to socioeconomic policies. |
I think credit needs to be given to the government for maintaining economic growth in the face of a declining agricultural and tourist sector. Cyprus has to change I'm afraid and I personally think entering the Euro is major achievement and it will bring benefits to Cyprus in the longer term. We have to face the fact the there is greater competition for tourism in the region and that agriculture needs to be overhauled. The days of protectionism are over and we have to accept it and take advatange of new opportunities that come our way. |
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DM
Villager
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 26
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| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If we assume that Akel left the government earlier, who do you think Tassos would have brought in to fill the vaccum? Well, you guessed right, EUROKO would have been brought in, with all the concequences that such an action means. |
Well, no. It would have forced an early election. If AKEL pulled out, then Papadopoulos would have NO madate to pursue his policies.
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Well, the last time I checked in Cyprus we have a Presidential System where a president gets elected directly from the people. You must have missed something here...
As far as the economy is concerned credit should be given to the Cypriot theselves that have sustained the burden of economic convergence with the Maastrict criteria. People ought to be given what they have been promised in the 2003 Maifesto Pledge and that includes tax free salaries up to 12,000 CYP and not 11,300 CYP, as well as 14th pension, plus not raising the pension age... plus a number of other things that Tassos chose top ignore. |
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DM
Villager
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 26
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| cypezokyli wrote: |
let us assume that we forgive christofias for being late.
shouldnt he at least partly admit a "mea culpa" ? |
Don't you think that Christofias more or less said the above in yesterday's press conference? He pretty much unveiled a number of differences with Papadopoulos that led to Akel following its own way?
If you elect somebody and then chose to split the coalition naming all those differences it means that what in eefect happened is that Tpap did not really turn out to be the person that you envisaged or at least to close to what you expected. |
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Bananiot
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 1244
Location: Nicosia
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It is true that in a Presidential system (without even a vice president to apply checks) the president, once elected cannot be removed, unless he shows political sensitivities that are pretty much unknown in Cyprus.
Regarding the economic convergence with the Maastrict criteria, it was plain sailing for Papadopoulos and his government to achieve since the biggest trade union is PEO, which is controlled by AKEL. EDEK, the other partner in the governement kept DEOK in check and of course, the second biggest trade union SEK had no reason whatsoever to mobilse against the convergence.
Had AKEL been in opposition and really believed in the communist ideology the so called convergence would have gone down the drain. So, do not talk about sacrifises made by the people. Our people are still moved around by the nose from the parties. |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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| DM wrote: |
| cypezokyli wrote: |
| mikkie , the coalitions that will be formed in the second round , irrespective of who the two winners are, will simply once again show that no political party really cares about the cyppro. |
One way or another in order for a candidate to get elected he needs the support of more than one party, hence every candidate will have to negotiate in the second round. However, as I said earlier for me the most likely scenario is a Christofias Vs Casoulides 2nd round.
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you know exactly what i am talking about DM.
we all know that coalitions are necessary. the point is with whom each party will choose to cooperate.
let me make it more explicit for you.
if we have:
kasoulides vs tpap
akel will vote for tpap , prooving exactly that they dont care about the cyppro
christofias vs tpap
dysi will most probably vote for tpap - prooving also that they dont care about the cyppro
kasoulides vs christofias
diko will most probably vote for kasoulides - while they agree more with a "no to cement yes" in comparison to a pure "yes"
in all these, where do you see anyone caring about the cyppro ? |
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Bananiot
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 1244
Location: Nicosia
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As it happens, DIKO is allowed to play a leading role in Cyprus politics since 1974. This party, along with EDEK and Evroko, bearly add up to 28% when they run government. Yet these people shape the future of Cyprus and of course this is a bleak future because these parties house the most reactionary, nationalist, racist and xenophobic Greek Cypriots who are not that many but can win supporters from broad spectra when they are in position to dish out places in the government machinery and semi government organisations.
AKEL, despite being absolutely correct about Papadopoulos, will probably be central in his reelection by its own declaration that Papadopoulos is preferred to Kasoulides.
Thus I totally understand cypezokyli's frastration. I only wish I could say something to make him happier. |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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| Quote: |
| Thus I totally understand cypezokyli's frastration. I only wish I could say something to make him happier. |
well as things stand, we cannot avoid diko being in power. the least we can hope for is that tpap doesnot manage in the second round.
in this way diko can retain access to rousfet, but at least someone else will be negotiating the cyppro.
this is realisticaly the best we can expect. it is at least better from what we have now  |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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| Quote: |
kasoulides vs christofias
diko will most probably vote for kasoulides - while they agree more with a "no to cement yes" in comparison to a pure "yes" |
Perhaps this scenario is the best of a bad bunch! As long as Papadopoulos and Christofias are out of the frame then that can only be a good thing.
At least Kasoulides was foreign minister and he has good experience of EU matters. With DIKO, at least they have some fresh blood in their ranks. I don;t know much about Marios Karogian but he comes across as being a sensible person.
| Quote: |
| Had AKEL been in opposition and really believed in the communist ideology the so called convergence would have gone down the drain. So, do not talk about sacrifises made by the people. Our people are still moved around by the nose from the parties. |
Well said bananiot. For once I agree with you! However, we have to give credit where credit is due. It is a major achievement for Cyprus to join the Euro zone when you see what other EU countries much larger than ours are struggling to meet basic economic criteria. |
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DM
Villager
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 26
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| Bananiot wrote: |
Regarding the economic convergence with the Maastrict criteria, it was plain sailing for Papadopoulos and his government to achieve since the biggest trade union is PEO, which is controlled by AKEL. EDEK, the other partner in the governement kept DEOK in check and of course, the second biggest trade union SEK had no reason whatsoever to mobilse against the convergence.
Had AKEL been in opposition and really believed in the communist ideology the so called convergence would have gone down the drain. So, do not talk about sacrifises made by the people. Our people are still moved around by the nose from the parties. |
Agree to a certain degree with waht you said.
However, Akel and PEO had been prepaired to settle with a couple of years of strict fiscal policies in order to meet a target that was COMPULSARY and SET by the accession agreement itself. In this process both Akel and PEO agreed a number of offsetting measures with Papadopoulos and these were included in the Manifesto Pledge. Things like the 12,000 CYP taxfree salaries, the reestablishing of those elements that were excluded from ATA, the 14th pension, the rejection of any talk for raising the pension age were just a few of what has been included in the manifesto. Now tell me which of these has been implemented from our genius Minister of Finance which mikkie2 says we should applaude. Akel even proposed to delay the adoption of the EURO until 2009 so that it would be evn easier to give to the people what they were promised but once again Tpap rejected this. People have been patient and had in mind that come the convergence they were going to get what they had been promised. Instead they got nothing of the above and you can see why the frustration with Tpap and Sarris himself. Both Akel and PEO have shown in the past that they can compromise on things that are NOT permamnet and cooperated towards that direction especialy in the light of the mess that DISY left behind in 2003.
Bananiot, I have said it before and I say it again, don't underestimate how strongly Akel members and voters feel about the socioeconomic policies of any government. Akel members are naturally of the lowest socioeconomic groups and thus these policies touch very much on their quality of life and their children well being. |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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Interesting article from Sener Levent on Christofias' candidacy. Here's a loose translation from Turkish:
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Congratulations to Hristofias and good luck to him in the elections.
But I should note one thing..
I'm not one of those who have high hopes for his candidacy.
But I'm still happy.
You might ask why?
Because I believe that the Greek Cypriot community also needs a revision of image.
Once Hristofias is elected, we can give a more direct and correct answer to the question of "Why don't we have a solution to the Cyprus problem?"
Only then, we cannot hide behind the cheap excuses for a non solution.
Cypriot nation is unfortunately not capable of understanding something without actually living through it.
They always have to live through it.
We lived through it and understood in the north.
We thought that everything would change instantly with a magic hand.
So many people believed in this that the disappointment afterwards was huge.
But it was useful too.
The community understood what it didn't before.
At least they understood that the real status quo was not Denktash.
It was quite challenging to convince people of this when Denktash was in power.
Only after Denktash was gone, it was understood that the status quo was Turkey.
...
It's very important that Hristofias is elected in order to understand clearly why there is no solution to the Cyprus problem.
Think about it.
On one side there's the communist leader Hristofias.
On the other side, a pro-solution, pro-peace and ex-Marxist Mehmet Ali Talat.
In other words, none of the fanatic nationalists, that we hold so responsible, will be on stage.
I really wonder, if the Cyprus problem cannot be solved then, what would those (who say nationalists are responsible for a non solution) all say?
What kind of an excuse will those, who now say "All the problem is Papadopoulos", find?
For a Greek Cypriot leader to be successful for a solution all depends on the attitude of the Turkish side.
In the Turkish side does not step back for today's demands, no Greek Cypriot leader can be any different from Papadopoulos.
But it's all about the image.
A lot changed when it was Talat that did the same things that Denktash did. Likewise, it will change a lot when Hristofias does what Papadopoulos did.
Remember what Talat said? "Now the time is all about the image. "
But like Talat shaved his head, Hristofias doesn't need to grow a beard or a mustache! |
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Dream_Merchant
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 422
Location: Limassol
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| Bananiot wrote: |
| As it happens, DIKO is allowed to play a leading role in Cyprus politics since 1974. This party, along with EDEK and Evroko, bearly add up to 28% when they run government. Yet these people shape the future of Cyprus and of course this is a bleak future because these parties house the most reactionary, nationalist, racist and xenophobic Greek Cypriots who are not that many but can win supporters from broad spectra when they are in position to dish out places in the government machinery and semi government organisations. |
Oh wait, a coalition of moderate centrist parties is considered as 'reactionary, nationalist, racist and xenophobic'? You should really listen to yourself. Better yet don't because you'd probably go insane from the nonsense.
Dish out places in the government machinery and semi-government organisations? I think you are mistaking DISY vote hogging strategies with something else.. moving along.
Ah yes, of course AKEL endorses similar strategies to 'counterbalance' DISY strategies.
Vote for the President! Vote for Tassos Papadopoulos! |
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