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| IS Cyprus better off or Worse off after EOKA? |
| Cyprus was better off with EOKA: |
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27% |
[ 5 ] |
| Cyprus was worse off with EOKA: |
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44% |
[ 8 ] |
| Cyprus should of Stayed with Britain: |
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27% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 18 |
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| Author |
Message |
Bananiot
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 1244
Location: Nicosia
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I think you are right Mete, but it may be worth our while to look at the events during 1947 and even 1944.
Before the war was over, the Brits had sent Sir Cosmo Parkinson to Cyprus (summer 1944) to tap the public opinion about the future of Cyprus after the war. The Brits meant the constitutional future, within the British Empire. AKEL totally rejected any contacts with Sir Cosmo and organised massive demonstrations for union of Cyprus with Greece. You see, the communist movement in Greece was extremely strong at the time and in AKEL they were sure that after the war Greece would become a People's Republic. AKEL was the only organised political force at the time and the right followed suit and also refused to see Sir Cosmo who left without achieving anything.
In 1947 AKEL and Cyprus in general, faced the Constitutional Assembly (diaskeptiki, in Greek). Now, AKEL was politically more mature and soon decided to go ahead. During the Assembly it was soon made obvious that its President Sir Edward Jackson was only offering self government to a very limited extend. Also, this time round, the right decided not to participate in the Assembly and in effect only AKEL was there with some level headed members of the right, such as John Klerides (father of Glafcos Klerides), Santamas from Larnaca and a few others.
During the Assembly the right went into a frenzy of anti AKEL propaganda labelling all those that participated as traitors (its in our genes, it appears, to call anyone that disagrees with us traitor). In the meantime, Sir Jackson made his offer which was totally unacceptable and probably on purpose so that the Assembly would be led to a failure. This because the Brits had realised that self government would fall into the arms of the communists, since the right was not participating. Given the poor offer and the intense pressure from the right, AKEL broke and called it a day (also, the weight of a difficult decision could mean loss of support, something we saw in April 2004). Thus, AKEL failed to see through a promising effort, albeit with poor and unpalatable proposals. AKEL should have agreed and give Cyprus a restricted self government but which would lay the foundation of serious advances for the better in 5 or 10 years. In other words, a step by step approach to our targets. However, we wanted everything on the plate at once ... enosis and only enosis. This inexcusable attitude and political immaturity has haunted ever since and has precipitated all the mistakes we have made which have brought us to the brink of partition. |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| Bananiot wrote: |
However, we wanted everything on the plate at once ... enosis and only enosis. This inexcusable attitude and political immaturity has haunted ever since and has precipitated all the mistakes we have made which have brought us to the brink of partition.
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Thanks, Bananiot for the nice read and especially this quote sums it all up prettty well. |
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Bananiot
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 1244
Location: Nicosia
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| Mete, my friend, I am very upset with AKEL. Every time, when the future of Cyprus was being shaped, they backed down, scared to stand up and be counted. The downhill started in 1947 and culminated in 2003 when they elevated Papadopoulos to the top job. Since then AKEL has descended down the road of chauvinism and nationalism and now resembles a social nationalist party. Unfortunately AKEL will support Papadopoulos for another term (elections in February) and as anyone can readily realise there will be no problem to be solved in 6 years time. |
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Evagoras
Senior Villager
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 118
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| you are right bananiot some Greek Cypriot have it in their genes that those who disagree with them are traitors and some that those who disagree with them are fascist and chauvinist. |
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polis
Warnings : 3
Villager
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 72
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| Mete wrote: |
| polis wrote: |
But the communal desire of the Turkish Cypriot community was taxim, which unlike the Greek Communal desire for enosis, presupposed war and ethnic cleansing.
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You say this as if it's a scientific fact when it's very subjective. How can you guarantee that Turkish Cypriots would not have been ethnically cleansed after Enosis? How do you know that Taksim would definitely mean war and ethnic cleansing?Turkey could land on the island on 20th of July 1974 due to Enosis desires of your community members. 1974 war was brought by Enosis not Taksim. Turkish Cypriots did not seize land, declare Taksim and invited Turkey to invade. What happenned is that some Greek Cypriots staged a coup in order to secure Enosis. Despite all this known facts, you come here and tell us that Taksim meant war and Enosis didn't? |
Taxim presupposes the division of Cyprus into two regions the one populated by Greeks and the other by Turks and the secession of the latter. This cannot be done without the ethnic cleansing of the Greek population from the areas that are to become the Turkish secessionist state. Enosis does not presuppose anything of the sort.
By the way, who told you the aim of the coup was enosis?
Last edited by polis on Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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polis
Warnings : 3
Villager
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 72
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| Bananiot wrote: |
| Mete, my friend, I am very upset with AKEL. Every time, when the future of Cyprus was being shaped, they backed down, scared to stand up and be counted. The downhill started in 1947 and culminated in 2003 when they elevated Papadopoulos to the top job. Since then AKEL has descended down the road of chauvinism and nationalism and now resembles a social nationalist party. Unfortunately AKEL will support Papadopoulos for another term (elections in February) and as anyone can readily realise there will be no problem to be solved in 6 years time. |
Before Mete gets too carried away, when AKEL accepted to participate in the consultative committee (diaskptiki) it did so in order to further the goal of Enosis. For AKEL self rule was merely a step closer to Enosis. The issue was one of tactics, how best to reach the national goal.
If the nationalist road is a road down hill, then AKEL was already firmly at the hill's bottom, when, for example, in August 1944 it was calling "on every organized and not organized section of the Greek Cypriot People ... to rise up and with one voice to demand from the envoy of the British Minister that which for so many years it thirsts for and is denied - Union with Greece. Forward towards our holy duty for National Redemption"
I wonder though why you consider 1947 to be the start of the "downhill road". 1947 was the year organized decided to join the consultative assembly. The rejection of the British proposals for limited self rule came a year later. |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| polis wrote: |
Taxim presupposes the division of Cyprus into two regions the one populated by Greeks and the other by Turks and the secession of the latter. This cannot be done without the ethnic cleansing of the Greek population from the areas that are to become the Turkish secessionist state. Enosis does not presuppose anything of the sort.
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If I were as one-sided as you are, I could have said that Enosis not only presupposes ethnic cleansing of Turkish Cypriots from one particular area but it rather presupposes ethnic cleansing of Turkish Cypriots from all Cyprus. Period. I could have been even more greedy and I could have said Taksim, at least, is a fairer deal for Greek Cypriots (compared to Turkish Cypriots for Enosis) as Greek Cypriots would be "ethnically cleansed" from only a part of Cyprus when Turkish Cypriots would completely be cleansed with Enosis unless they change their name to Muslim Greeks or something. But I'll refrain from saying all these as I know better and I have the courage to look at the events from the window of the other side.
| polis wrote: |
By the way, who told you the aim of the coup was enosis?
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Tell me what was the aim of the coup, if it wasn't Enosis then? They just felt like organizing a nice little coup for some adventure??? Give me a break.
BTW, still waiting to hear your argument on how one of the aims of Enosis was to safeguard minority rights of Turkish Cypriots. |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2880
Location: Australia
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Polis!
Depurple, what medication are you on?????????????????
Typical (This Guy knows a HELL of a lot more than me what do I do?) response!
When I get a response like this IT proves 2 things!
ONE I have hit the NAIL on the HEAD!
OR
You don't have a bloody clue about Politics specially Cyprus Politics!
IF you read some of my posting my friend I am also known as the Professor of Cyprus Politics & Rock & Roll!
So just answer the question Polis and STOP avoiding the truth!
waiting for your prompt reply!
PS Don't feel bad you are not the only one who hasn't got a clue about Cyprus OR is influence by your parents and family! |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2880
Location: Australia
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Mete
As I said I have Uncles in EOKA and EOKA B and this is what they said!
EOKA Uncle:
We will get Independence from Britain and will be an independent country because Greece does not want us and will not pay Britain so we will be alone!
We will be part of the UN and no one will bother us!
His 2007 message is "We should of stayed with Britain what a mess!")
EOKA B UNCLE:
After we kill all the Communist bastards and the non ENOSIS traitors we will kill all the Turkish Cypriot and make Cyprus GREEK again!
His 2007 message is:
"There will come again a time and we will rise again and fulfill our love for Greece"
Thank God he is living in Greece and out of Cyprus!
Polis wont answer my questions BUT I will answer his! "By the way, who told you the aim of the coup was enosis?"
He is right! The coupe was only to KILL the Left wing Communists!
We should ask Polis how many of the 1619 missing where actually killed by EOKA B and not Turkey?
Ask my Aunt Eleni who husband was killed by EOKA B and she was a widow at 35 with 6 children!
DP! |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2880
Location: Australia
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Evagoras
"you are right bananiot some Greek Cypriot have it in their genes that those who disagree with them are traitors and some that those who disagree with them are fascist and chauvinist."
I agree my Friends But you left our the main bullshit one! They are Communists bastards!
cheers DP! |
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polis
Warnings : 3
Villager
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 72
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| Mete, you really are a hopeless case, are you not?! Now go out and have a discussion with depurple. |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2880
Location: Australia
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Polis just answer my 2 simple questions and stop avoiding them BOY!
Mete have you every heard of the following saying?
"Don't knock on a deaf man door he wont Listen!"
cheers
We are getting the Butt of Beef ready for the BBQ!
PS hey Polis!
You can get a good look at a piece of meat by sticking your head up a BULL Arse!
But I rather take the butchers word for it!
cheers again my lost in 74 friend! |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| depurple wrote: |
He is right! The coupe was only to KILL the Left wing Communists!
We should ask Polis how many of the 1619 missing where actually killed by EOKA B and not Turkey?
DP! |
Depurple, shut up and hear the answer to your foolish question! The answer is none, because for nearly all of them there is concrete information regarding the last place and time they were seen alive, and that nearly all went missing after the 20th of July, in places in which only the Turkish army and /or the invasion might have had any relation to their disappearance.
As for your other claims above regarding the coup, the truth of the matter is that the Junta /NG coup was carried out in order to eliminate Makarios and place an Athen's Junta puppet in his place! It is irrelevant to it's true aim, if Eoka B' was recruiting its members under the slogans of "Enosis" or if the Greek Cypriot NG soldiers were chanting slogans such as "Ellas-Kypros Enosis," or if during the 5 day coup period some Eoka B thugs had murdered or tortured some pro-Makarios or leftist opponents, as an act of "revenge" for the "treatment" they had in the pre-coup period. As you know, most of the Eoka B' underground members were effectively getting arrested in the pre-coup period by the pro-Makarios /pro-government forces, unfortunately only to be getting released instead of been kept in jail, after their disarming and their heavy beating in the police cells. Once the NG coupists took control, some of those Eoka B' thugs came out and started seeking revenge.
Now you are free to go and continue your getting drunk and hallucinating fiesta, until you come up with another “bright” idea to be "thrown-out" in the forums! |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2880
Location: Australia
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Kifreas stop believing what they tell you mate!
I have a book of the 1619 people missing and I know how many where killed by the EOKA B in it so get into the real world or Politics and out of the 74 pre taught by your parents blind politics!
Also got get ATTILA 74 on DVD and try to comprehend what they are saying!
But my guess with YOU is simple! How many of your relatives where EOKA B my friend?
Cant believe after so many years you guys still wont look at facts and reason and also common sense! Amazing!
The coupe was to get rid of Makarios? Is that what they taught you? Is that what you believe?
Right Mate keep believing!
cheers
PS While you are searching for the Truth ask what Grivas did to the poor people of Kardista in Greece during the Greek Civil war! |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2880
Location: Australia
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PS I forgot to add: I have 3 relatives missing in Kyrenia and we know what happened and it wasn't the Turkeys and they are in that book!
BUT as I said before that is politics and you know politic Kifreas?
There are NO RULES!
That is why I support the Turks who said that many Turkish Cypriot where killed by Turkish Cypriot to make the Greek Cypriot look bad! If you ask any Turkish Cypriot they jump around like chickens with their head off like YOU and other BUT what is the truth that counts and I know what happened in 74 and YOU my friend have to look for the REAL answers yourself!
cheers
PS explain it to my Aunt that it was the Turks that killed my Uncle when we all know who it really was!
BUT then she could be a traitor, a communist, a KGB agent and what other words do you GRIVIKI people use? |
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