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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| turkcyp wrote: |
The sad thing is when I used to live overseas when asked I never feel the need to tell that I am a Turkish Cypriot but was simply calling myself Cypriot. Every Greek Cypriot that I know also called themselves just Cypriot not Greek Cypriot.
I guess something bad happens when you come back to this god foresaken island. |
You should tell this to the historical Turkish Cypriot leadership and its ideological remnants in the current Turkish Cypriot leadership, which have invented, cultivated and keep maintaining the notion of the "existence" of two separate people (and after 1974 of two separate "nation-states,") in Cyprus, as the flagship of their propaganda struggle and the basis of any solution to the Cyprus issue. None of the Greek Cypriot leaderships or any of the major political movements among the Greek Cypriot society maintain such a notion, and the official Greek Cypriot political stance on the issue was always that in Cyprus there is only one people, which is all the lawful inhabitants of the island. Others have kept telling (and still do) the whole world precisely the opposite. |
Come on Kifeas please be realistic here. Are you saying that Greek Cypriots pursuing a purely GREEK nationalist goal for the future of Cyprus that sought to make Cyprus a part of GREECE played no part in dividing the Cypriot people along ethnic lines and creating a mental division between the two Cypriot communities? For Greek Cypriot leaderships to claim that there is only one CYPRIOT people whilst trying to pursue the ceding of cyprus to GREECE (and thus the destruction of any separate cypriot people with is subsumption into the Greek people) is just the same 'flagship' propaganda in reverse you condem. If the Turkish Cypriot leaderships 'problem' was that there are two sepeate peoples in Cyprus then the Greek Cypriot one is the that there is NO cypriot people - just a Greek people. Each is bad as the other and by condeming one and ignoring the other you just perpetuate the problem not solve it. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| erolz wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
| turkcyp wrote: |
The sad thing is when I used to live overseas when asked I never feel the need to tell that I am a Turkish Cypriot but was simply calling myself Cypriot. Every Greek Cypriot that I know also called themselves just Cypriot not Greek Cypriot.
I guess something bad happens when you come back to this god foresaken island. |
You should tell this to the historical Turkish Cypriot leadership and its ideological remnants in the current Turkish Cypriot leadership, which have invented, cultivated and keep maintaining the notion of the "existence" of two separate people (and after 1974 of two separate "nation-states,") in Cyprus, as the flagship of their propaganda struggle and the basis of any solution to the Cyprus issue. None of the Greek Cypriot leaderships or any of the major political movements among the Greek Cypriot society maintain such a notion, and the official Greek Cypriot political stance on the issue was always that in Cyprus there is only one people, which is all the lawful inhabitants of the island. Others have kept telling (and still do) the whole world precisely the opposite. |
Come on Kifeas please be realistic here. Are you saying that Greek Cypriots pursuing a purely GREEK nationalist goal for the future of Cyprus that sought to make Cyprus a part of GREECE played no part in dividing the Cypriot people along ethnic lines and creating a mental division between the two Cypriot communities? For Greek Cypriot leaderships to claim that there is only one CYPRIOT people whilst trying to pursue the ceding of cyprus to GREECE (and thus the destruction of any separate cypriot people with is subsumption into the Greek people) is just the same 'flagship' propaganda in reverse you condem. If the Turkish Cypriot leaderships 'problem' was that there are two sepeate peoples in Cyprus then the Greek Cypriot one is the that there is NO cypriot people - just a Greek people. Each is bad as the other and by condeming one and ignoring the other you just perpetuate the problem not solve it. |
The difference between me and you is that I talk about something that exists at the very present and all along the last 40 years, while you keep talking about something that existed in the past and ended 40 years ago! That is all I can tell you! |
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100%cypriot
Warnings : 4
Ministerial
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 2164
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| Birkibrisli wrote: |
| 100%cypriot wrote: |
| It is not hard to say i am a Cypriot to those that realy believe that they are Cypriots , but i'm afraid there are too many people from both sides that demand to be known as one or the other , and that is another problem that could take forever to sort out |
Forever is a very long time,100%...
The forces of darkness and hatred will be defeated much sooner than that.Then we can all get on with our lives as True Cypriots...   |
i would love to see that day bir  |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| The difference between me and you is that I talk about something that exists at the very present and all along the last 40 years, while you keep talking about something that existed in the past and ended 40 years ago! That is all I can tell you! |
The problem is Kifeas that you do not do this. What you do is take from the past what serves your needs and forget or distort that which does not as a means to try and leverage an essentially Greek Cypriot position (not a pan cypriot one) for today and tomorrow. That is as divisive today as enosis and the way the Greek Cypriot leadership pursued it was in the past. |
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Leon
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Posts: 240
Location: England
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I agree with what Mete said: we don't need to rid ourselves of our Greekness or Turkishness to live side-by-side in peace.
I am proud to say I'm a Cypriot. I'm proud to say I'm a Greek Cypriot, too. I don't really see why there is such a to do about it all. 'Cypriot' merely describes the country we come from and the nationality to which we adhere (and rightly so! the sooner both sides start becoming Cypriot - rather than Greek and Turkish - the better); 'Greek Cypriot' and 'Turkish Cypriot' are simply more in-depth descriptions of 'what kind of Cypriot' we are.
Although I strongly believe we need to move forward together as Cypriots, we equally must not forget who we are, our history, and our roots. We are the same in the respect that we come from Cyprus, but we are different in the languages we speak, the religion to which we belong, and certain cultural differences. 'Greek Cypriot' and 'Turkish Cypriot' should, in my eyes, always exist. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| erolz wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
| The difference between me and you is that I talk about something that exists at the very present and all along the last 40 years, while you keep talking about something that existed in the past and ended 40 years ago! That is all I can tell you! |
The problem is Kifeas that you do not do this. What you do is take from the past what serves your needs and forget or distort that which does not as a means to try and leverage an essentially Greek Cypriot position (not a pan cypriot one) for today and tomorrow. That is as divisive today as enosis and the way the Greek Cypriot leadership pursued it was in the past. |
I am sorry but I have no clue of what you are talking about. Can you be a bit more specific? |
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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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| When Papadopoulos says that he is defending the last outpost of Hellenism, and at the same time say the communities form one people; what he really means is that also the Turkish Cypriots are really Greek Cypriots - they just do not understand it, yet. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1742
Location: Canada
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| Leon wrote: |
I agree with what Mete said: we don't need to rid ourselves of our Greekness or Turkishness to live side-by-side in peace.
I am proud to say I'm a Cypriot. I'm proud to say I'm a Greek Cypriot, too. I don't really see why there is such a to do about it all. 'Cypriot' merely describes the country we come from and the nationality to which we adhere (and rightly so! the sooner both sides start becoming Cypriot - rather than Greek and Turkish - the better); 'Greek Cypriot' and 'Turkish Cypriot' are simply more in-depth descriptions of 'what kind of Cypriot' we are.
Although I strongly believe we need to move forward together as Cypriots, we equally must not forget who we are, our history, and our roots. We are the same in the respect that we come from Cyprus, but we are different in the languages we speak, the religion to which we belong, and certain cultural differences. 'Greek Cypriot' and 'Turkish Cypriot' should, in my eyes, always exist. |
Thats what I say!!!, bravo Leon |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2876
Location: Australia
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"I don't really see why there is such a to do about it all. 'Cypriot' merely describes the country we come from and the nationality to which we adhere"
Right LEON you said it correctly!
BUT
You stuffed it up by saying Greek Cypriot & Turkish Cypriot!
What you have said is exactly what the world wants to see!
Cypriots!
Look at how many countries have lost their Nationalities and adapted their New nationality!
What was Albania?
What was Bulgaria and 100s of other countries?
What you say Leon is adapted in Iraq and now Iraq will be either torn to pieces OR blown UP so take YOUR pick!
BUT they all said we are Iraqis and then said I speak Kurdish, Turkish, Arabic or whatever!
HOW many innocent people would be with their loved ones today instead of 6 feet under!
Answer me that?
One more POINT for a few others who are still BLIND by the PAST!
I agree it is OK to say and be proud that we are Greek Cypriot or Turkish Cypriot BUT not in Cyprus because we use it to say that Cyprus belongs to Greece OR Cyprus belonged to Turkey!
A TUG OF WAR!
In simple words so most can understand!
We in Cyprus CAN NOT adopt this Greek Cypriot & Turkish Cypriot past! WHY?
Because OUR love for Turkey & Greece is 1000% more than our love for just Cyprus and many will not change as you can see from just this small FORUM which has young people WHO should look at this world differently.
This love for Turkey & Greece has destroyed OUR country and put us in this mess today:
The sooner this stupid PAST mentally leaves us the sooner we will see a day when we are ALL ONE and EQUAL in Cyprus!
cheers
As for me?
I don't want to have anything to do with Greece or Turkey! They have done enough damage as it is already in Cyprus and planted the seeds of EVIL in MOST of us!
Besides we have better cuisine han them anyway! |
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Birkibrisli
Deputy
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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| pg wrote: |
| When Papadopoulos says that he is defending the last outpost of Hellenism, and at the same time say the communities form one people; what he really means is that also the Turkish Cypriots are really Greek Cypriots - they just do not understand it, yet. |
Someone should tell Papadopoulos to stop making such stupid remarks.
For each time he says something like this he sets the peace process back about 10 years. It should obvious to even Blind Freddie by now that most Turkish Cypriots have a pathological fear of being eaten alive by "Hellenism"...  |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2876
Location: Australia
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Birkibrisli you are are right!
Besides Papas has got it wrong! The last outpost of Hellenism, is Crete! And he should go move there!
cheers!
PS And I will pay for his ticket!
It amazing how in Australia when Papas won all his supporters move to Cyprus for a few years and IF Clerides party wins than Papa one move back to Australia and the Clerides move to Cyprus!
Why is it so?
DP! |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| I am sorry but I have no clue of what you are talking about. Can you be a bit more specific? |
OK I will try, though I suspect you do in fact already know what I am talking about.
The discussion starts about ones identity and Greek Cypriot/Turkish Cypriot vs just Cypriot and you wade in with the following.
| Kifeas wrote: |
| You should tell this to the historical Turkish Cypriot leadership and its ideological remnants in the current Turkish Cypriot leadership, which have invented, cultivated and keep maintaining the notion of the "existence" of two separate people (and after 1974 of two separate "nation-states,") in Cyprus, as the flagship of their propaganda struggle and the basis of any solution to the Cyprus issue. None of the Greek Cypriot leaderships or any of the major political movements among the Greek Cypriot society maintain such a notion, and the official Greek Cypriot political stance on the issue was always that in Cyprus there is only one people, which is all the lawful inhabitants of the island. Others have kept telling (and still do) the whole world precisely the opposite. |
What you do here then, is in order to support a Greek Cypriot (not pan Cypriot) viewpoint, is take elements from 'history' that make it seem that the division between Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot were something that were purely the responsibility of Turkish Cypriot leaderships and that such division was something that was and always has been opposed by Greek Cypriot leaderships, implying their belief has always been in 'pan Cypriotism' and not division between the communities. The elements of history that you purposely leave out, again specifically to support a Greek Cypriot (not pan Cypriot) viewpoint are those that show that divisiveness between the communities was something created by the actions of both communities leaderships in Cyprus and not just the result of one community seeking such division and the other struggling for a notion of 'pan cypriotism' as you try and imply. You make no mention of why Greek Cypriot leaderships position has always been 'there is only one people in Cyprus' as a means of trying to ensure that the Greek Cypriot community alone effectively has the right and ability to force is communal will on Turkish Cypriot without regard for their will.
When challenged about the above you reply with
| Kifeas wrote: |
| The difference between me and you is that I talk about something that exists at the very present and all along the last 40 years, while you keep talking about something that existed in the past and ended 40 years ago! That is all I can tell you! |
You defense is that you are talking about the present but I am talking about the past. However in your original statement you are not talking about the present but in fact you are specifically talking about the past both of the Turkish Cypriot leaderships 'historical' position and that of Greek Cypriot leaderships.
Here is the problem then Kifeas. What you do in effect is create an essentially Greek Cypriot thesis about who is responsible for notions of division between Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot in Cyprus and make no attempt to offer a generic cypriot one. You speak not as a 'Cypriot' but as a Greek Cypriot, your views are not those of a Cypriot but those of specifically a Greek Cypriot. In doing this you in effect are promoting the very thing you try and blame just the Turkish Cypriot leadership from. You force me and others into having to respond as a Turkish Cypriot and not as a Cypriot. So for example if you were able to have presented a less on sided version of the 'historical' causes of division , one that accepted that in reality the behavior of both communities leaderships past and present have done things that are inherently divisive between the two communities, you create the opportunity for me to agree that yes Turkish Cypriot leaderships have played their role in this divisiveness and the potential for a true Cypriot perspective on this issue becomes possible. What you actually do however is present a Greek Cypriot ony view that seeks to blame the Turkish Cypriot leaderships for promoting divisiveness and absolve the Greek Cypriot one. What this does is it FORCES me to then respond myself not as a Cypriot but as a Turkish Cypriot - thus continuing and strengthening division itself.
In summary
If you speak as a GREEK Cypriot and not just a Cypriot, if you present perspectives on the past and present that are GREEK Cypriot perspectives and not Cypriot ones, if you define the problem as being caused by one community alone and seek to absolve the others even when the reality is far more complex than this then what you actually do is continue and promote divisiveness between the communities . |
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Leon
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Posts: 240
Location: England
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| depurple wrote: |
"I don't really see why there is such a to do about it all. 'Cypriot' merely describes the country we come from and the nationality to which we adhere"
Right LEON you said it correctly!
BUT
You stuffed it up by saying Greek Cypriot & Turkish Cypriot!
What you have said is exactly what the world wants to see!
Cypriots!
Look at how many countries have lost their Nationalities and adapted their New nationality!
What was Albania?
What was Bulgaria and 100s of other countries?
What you say Leon is adapted in Iraq and now Iraq will be either torn to pieces OR blown UP so take YOUR pick!
BUT they all said we are Iraqis and then said I speak Kurdish, Turkish, Arabic or whatever!
HOW many innocent people would be with their loved ones today instead of 6 feet under!
Answer me that?
One more POINT for a few others who are still BLIND by the PAST!
I agree it is OK to say and be proud that we are Greek Cypriot or Turkish Cypriot BUT not in Cyprus because we use it to say that Cyprus belongs to Greece OR Cyprus belonged to Turkey!
A TUG OF WAR!
In simple words so most can understand!
We in Cyprus CAN NOT adopt this Greek Cypriot & Turkish Cypriot past! WHY?
Because OUR love for Turkey & Greece is 1000% more than our love for just Cyprus and many will not change as you can see from just this small FORUM which has young people WHO should look at this world differently.
This love for Turkey & Greece has destroyed OUR country and put us in this mess today:
The sooner this stupid PAST mentally leaves us the sooner we will see a day when we are ALL ONE and EQUAL in Cyprus!
cheers
As for me?
I don't want to have anything to do with Greece or Turkey! They have done enough damage as it is already in Cyprus and planted the seeds of EVIL in MOST of us!
Besides we have better cuisine han them anyway! |
Iraq, Bulgaria, and Albania are not Cyprus therefore it is silly to try and compare the situations.
First and foremost a Cypriot, then a Greek Cypriot, Turkish, Cypriot, Maronite Cypriot, Armenian Cypriot etc. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1742
Location: Canada
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how about a poll?
1. we can all call ourselves Cypriots. without reservation.
2. we cannot call ourselves Cypriots, because we are either grecophone or turcophone.
3. we can call ourselves Cypriots, however we are Greek Cypriot or Turkish Cypriot. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 925
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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Repulsewarrior wrote
| Quote: |
Leon wrote:
| Quote: |
I agree with what Mete said: we don't need to rid ourselves of our Greekness or Turkishness to live side-by-side in peace.
I am proud to say I'm a Cypriot. I'm proud to say I'm a Greek Cypriot, too. I don't really see why there is such a to do about it all. 'Cypriot' merely describes the country we come from and the nationality to which we adhere (and rightly so! the sooner both sides start becoming Cypriot - rather than Greek and Turkish - the better); 'Greek Cypriot' and 'Turkish Cypriot' are simply more in-depth descriptions of 'what kind of Cypriot' we are.
Although I strongly believe we need to move forward together as Cypriots, we equally must not forget who we are, our history, and our roots. We are the same in the respect that we come from Cyprus, but we are different in the languages we speak, the religion to which we belong, and certain cultural differences. 'Greek Cypriot' and 'Turkish Cypriot' should, in my eyes, always exist. |
Thats what I say!!!, bravo Leon |
That is what I say too!!!  |
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