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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| But Erol, you could still turn up and spoil your ballot. Spoiled ballots are actually noted and counted. If there was an unusually high number of spoiled ballots that would perhaps ring alarm bells. |
Spolied ballots are counted and then 'discounted' as being people too stupid to fill out a ballot paper properly. Spoiling ballots is NOT the same as having a valid registered 'none of the above' option. |
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cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
Moderator
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5357
Location: National Forest, England
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| erolz wrote: |
| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| But Erol, you could still turn up and spoil your ballot. Spoiled ballots are actually noted and counted. If there was an unusually high number of spoiled ballots that would perhaps ring alarm bells. |
Spolied ballots are counted and then 'discounted' as being people too stupid to fill out a ballot paper properly. Spoiling ballots is NOT the same as having a valid registered 'none of the above' option. |
Very true... if however these millions of people attended and wrote on their ballot papers, 'I cannot vote for any candidate because none of them represent my views', it would make a difference and be noticed. |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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| cannedmoose wrote: |
| erolz wrote: |
| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| But Erol, you could still turn up and spoil your ballot. Spoiled ballots are actually noted and counted. If there was an unusually high number of spoiled ballots that would perhaps ring alarm bells. |
Spolied ballots are counted and then 'discounted' as being people too stupid to fill out a ballot paper properly. Spoiling ballots is NOT the same as having a valid registered 'none of the above' option. |
Very true... if however these millions of people attended and wrote on their ballot papers, 'I cannot vote for any candidate because none of them represent my views', it would make a difference and be noticed. |
its better than sitting at home and doing nothing, thats just lazy imo.  |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| cannedmoose wrote: |
Very true... if however these millions of people attended and wrote on their ballot papers, 'I cannot vote for any candidate because none of them represent my views', it would make a difference and be noticed. |
And if 'none of the above' became the biggest single 'party' and 'won' a general election how much effect would that have on our politicians? |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
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Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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The report says:
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| Turkey is angered at the latest developments and says it has already met all the conditions for membership. |
So Turkey thinks that she has fulfilled the conditions for membership already! Hmm. |
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magikthrill
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 630
Location: NYC
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I wonder who is that other country aside from Cyprus and (probably) Greece who have yet to come to a concensus with the other EU states.
Also, what exactly is it that they cannot agree to ? Is it the entire 10year negotiation process steps or just something in the near future? |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| magikthrill wrote: |
Also, what exactly is it that they cannot agree to ? Is it the entire 10year negotiation process steps or just something in the near future? |
What they can not agree is what the wording of the 'response' to the Turkish decleration on signing the custome unions extesnion protocol.
There is agreement that tjhere should be a written response.
Republic of Cyprus with Greece want the reply to talk about a specific date and time by which Turkey has to recognise the Republic of Cyprus, without a settlement and soon (2006) and that accession talks will stop if this is not done by Turkey byu this date.
The anglo french deal talks about the need for Turkey to recognise Cyprus before final accession but does not put a specfic date on this other than before accession (if this happens). The British (wioth apparent french approval) also want a mention of continued efforts to reach a Cyprus solution based on the Annan plan (ie some linkage between accession, recognition and settlment). The anglo french deal alos talks about the need to implement the customs protocol by a set date (review in 2006), though there are differences as to if there should just be a 'review' of implementation in 2006 or if talks shpould simply stop if it is not implemented by then.
That's a very rough summary. The Republic of Cyprus has refused to even begin discussing the 'roadmap' for accession talks until this issue of the response is dealt with, again against the prefered route of the UK/ current peresindency.
Over all there is a l lot of pressure I think to get some form of agreement rather than no agreement because the whole EU project is in a 'difficult period' with the non ratification of the consitituional reforms by French and Dutch people. This makes the need to reach agreement more imperative than if the Eu was not in this 'difficult period' as it increase the impression that the EU is unable to reach agreement amongst member states on many issues and this in turns undermines the whole basis of the EU. |
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magikthrill
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 630
Location: NYC
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| thanks for that erol. lets see what this situation will lead to. |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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| Quote: |
| The British (with apparent french approval) also want a mention of continued efforts to reach a Cyprus solution based on the Annan plan |
That is not strictly true Erol. You are misrepresenting what is being said. It simply states the continued effort to reach a solution under the auspices of the United Nations. That does not mean a solution based on the Annan plan! |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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| Quote: |
| The Republic of Cyprus has refused to even begin discussing the 'roadmap' for accession talks until this issue of the response is dealt with, again against the prefered route of the UK/ current peresindency. |
That is also a misrepresentation of the facts. Discussions on the roadmap will invariably cause problems if the EU does not respond to the Turkish declaration. Without a response, it simply means that the issue will have to be addressed in the roadmap. This in fact would be even worse for Turkey because without the roadmap, negotiations will simply not start. Far from refusing to negotiate the roadmap Cyprus would just love to negotiate and add her conditions to it!
This is the crux of the matter - Turkey wants the EU to ignore the Republic of Cyprus. The simple truth is that it can't. It would have been better if Turkey didn't make the declaration when she signed the protocol. Unfortunately for Turkey, yet another fine mess she has got herself into. |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The British (with apparent french approval) also want a mention of continued efforts to reach a Cyprus solution based on the Annan plan |
That is not strictly true Erol. You are misrepresenting what is being said. It simply states the continued effort to reach a solution under the auspices of the United Nations. That does not mean a solution based on the Annan plan! |
You are right and there was no intent on my part to mislead. The reference was from UK and France to
"emphasises the need to back UN efforts to reunite Cyprus"
You may think that does not mean an solution based on the Annan plan but I suggest that currently at least that is exactly what it means to the UN, to Annan, to UK, to France and to the rest of the world.
My understanding is that the UN's clear current position is that any future plan involving the UN would be based on the Annan plan. That position may in time change of course but I believe it to be the current position of the UN. Or can you show me any statements by anyone in the UN itself that says that any future effoert by the UN to broker or facilitate an agreement should NOT be based on the Annan plan? |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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Well the counter delcleration has been agreed by the EU
Turkey must recognise the Republic of Cyprus "but can do so at any time in the accession process, which could last 10 years."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4262438.stm
So will the Republic of Cyprus now work towards a settlement, or seek to push for recognition by Turkey of the Republic of Cyprus without a settlement at every stage of the accession process, even waiting if and until recongintion is the sole remaining obstacle to Turkish accesion, in the hope that then Turkey will finally agree to recognition without a settlement?
My fear is this is exactly what they will do for the next 10 to 15 years, blocking any moves for a settlement in the hope of forcing recognition by Turkey without a settlement. Why agree a compromise 'now' when you believe the the 'European solution' will (eventualy) deliver all you want without any need for compromise? |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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And now the agreement made at diplomatic levels has been "pulled from the agenda of ministers meeting in Brussels at Cyprus' request. "
:(
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4265140.stm
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Nicosia had reportedly been lobbying for Turkey to be given a specific deadline to recognise Cyprus, but on Monday apparently withdrew this demand.
However, Cypriot President Tassos Papadopoulos muddied the waters on Tuesday saying that the EU declaration called for a review of the question of Turkish recognition of Cyprus in 2006. |
:(
| Quote: |
| He (TP) also said the UK was attempting to link recognition with an agreement to end the island's division, as Turkey has demanded. |
And why should recognition not be linked to an agreement? |
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magikthrill
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 630
Location: NYC
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Recognition will be linked to an agreement most likely. Turkey is getting exactly what it was hoping for. obviously it would need to recogznie the Republic of Cyprus sometime before it entered the bloc. The fact that it doesn't have to do so in a specific time frame is the maximum Turkey could possibly hope for.
Also:
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[The EU] also warned that failure by Turkey to fully implement the customs accord -- notably by letting Cypriot ships and planes use its ports and airports -- would slow the pace of talks.
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Sounds pretty lenient to me. Let's just hope this works out for the best.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050920/wl_afp/euenlargeturkeycyprusdiscord_050920160659 |
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