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Alexios
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 976
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Interesting article in the Cyprus Mail.
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The truth about gaffes
By Gwynne Dyer
A "GAFFE" is a true statement that outrages the hypocrites, who then mobilise to shut the truth-teller up. The most common gaffes are about politics and religion, because those are the areas where the level of hypocrisy is highest. Which explains John Kerry's problem last Tuesday, or why Muazzez Ilmiye Cig almost went to jail in Turkey last Wednesday.... |
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More admirable than Kerry, because her gaffe was deliberate and she refused to apologise, is Muazzez Ilmiye Cig, a 92-year-old Turkish archaeologist who said bluntly that hijab – "Islamic" head-scarves that hide women's hair – are not Islamic at all, but a 5,000-year-old Middle Eastern tradition.
The great thing about being 92 – one of the few good things about being 92, apart from not being dead yet – is that you no longer have to care about your career or what people think. As one of the world's leading experts on Sumer, the first civilisation, Cig published 13 books and dozens of scholarly articles on her subject and earned great respect within that small community. But then she published a book last year about her own convictions (My Reactions as a Citizen) and all hell broke loose in Turkey.
All she said was that the head-scarf, now a badge of Muslim identity for devout women in Turkey and elsewhere, was actually first worn five thousand years ago by temple priestesses in Sumeria whose job was to initiate young people into sex. They were not prostitutes; only the daughters of the rich and influential got temple jobs. So gradually the wearing of head-scarves came to designate "respectable" women; that is to say rich women, not peasants and slaves. The fashion persisted down to Greek and Roman times, and was picked up by the Arabs when they conquered Syria in the generation after the Prophet.
Well, I could have told her that. I grew up a Catholic in prelapsarian Newfoundland, and the nuns who taught my sisters wore the full Sumerian gear. Until a couple of decades ago, Catholic nuns still dressed like any respectable Middle Eastern woman (of any religion) of two or three thousand years ago. Muazzez Ilmiye Cig was just stating the obvious historical truth. A serious gaffe.
She is not an innocent abroad. She has been an activist in feminist causes since the 1930s, and she recently wrote an open letter to Emine Erdogan, the Turkish prime minister's wife, urging her not to wear a head-scarf in public. "She can wear whatever she likes at home, but as the wife of the prime minister, she cannot wear a cross or the head-scarf," Cig told Vatan, a popular daily.
So Islamist lawyers brought charges against her for "inciting hatred and enmity among the people," and she ended up in court facing the prospect of one and a half years in prison. But 25 lawyers showed up to defend her for free, and the state prosecutor himself asked the judge to drop the charges, and in half an hour she walked out of the court a free woman, cheered by the crowd that had come to support her. The hypocrites do not always win. |
Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2006 http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=28906&archive=1
mod note: article shortened and link to source added
Alexios, please do not copy/paste full articles.
see forum rules http://www.talkcyprus.org/forum/faq.php?mode=sitefaq#3 |
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Birkibrisli
Deputy
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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 Yes,I followed that trial closely myself,Alexios.
I think even Erdogan is now convinced that either article 301 has to go or Turkey has to change its system of juristiction. You see,in Turkey anyone or any organisation can demand that charges be brought against this and that person for this and that offence,and the courts have to follow it up,by asking people to appear in court.It is than upto the prosecutor to ask the judge to lay formal charges or dismiss the case.
That is how charges against people like Orhan Pamuk (the Noble winner) ,Elif Shafak (the writer of The Bastard of Istanbul),and Hrat Dink (the Armenian Turkish journalist) were brought about as well. But it makes Turkey a laughing stock in Europe,as people think it is the state that is bringing these charges... |
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bg_turk
Deputy
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1316
Location: Bulgaria
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| Muzzez is my hero. Down with political islam, down with the headscarf. |
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Birkibrisli
Deputy
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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It is not the headscarf's fault that some people are trying to turn it into a symbol of Islamic political power,bg_turk...
As you probably know well,most women who live in the country side in Turkey wear some sort of headcover as a matter of tradition.They do not make a big deal out of it,nor do they see it as a symbol of religious freedom.Those who are trying to gain political capital out of people's religious beliefs should be ashamed of themselves...  |
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SP
Senior Villager
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 265
Location: Girne
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My mother who died last year at the sge of 89, God rest her soul, had always maintained that the wearing of a headscarf, or even covering ones face with a veil was NOT part of the Moslem faith, or, more accurately proscribed in the Koran. I guess she was right
By the way, if I'm wrong please forgive my ignorance, but didn't Ataturk forbid the wearing of the headscarf and the fez and actively encourage women to wear "Western" dress??? |
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Xenos 2Fan
Warnings : 5
Ministerial
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 3499
Location: Dallas,Texas/Mersin, Turkey
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| SP wrote: |
My mother who died last year at the sge of 89, God rest her soul, had always maintained that the wearing of a headscarf, or even covering ones face with a veil was NOT part of the Moslem faith, or, more accurately proscribed in the Koran. I guess she was right
By the way, if I'm wrong please forgive my ignorance, but didn't Ataturk forbid the wearing of the headscarf and the fez and actively encourage women to wear "Western" dress??? |
May God rest your Mothers soul. You are correct. Ataturk banned the veil and the fez. He also believed that Islam was based on Arab nationalism and went on to say that the religion stifled the development of Turkey. |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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i cannot recall ever seeing my greatgrandmother (94 or 96 years of age... we are not sure ) ever without a headscarf...or a head cover.
also my grandmother would never go to the fields without her headscarf...
plus, there is no traditional uniform in all regions of greece the balkans, cyprus (and i assume turkey) that women do not wear a headscarf.
there are very beautiful things about traditions... and some very bad ones...
the problem with the headscarf, as i understand it, is not the headscarf itself. its what it came to symbolize in the 21st century. i posted this in another thread (i find it important bc it comes from a turkish woman) :
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Despite the rhetoric that claims a person's style of dress is a matter of freedom, I believe that, on the whole, there is a man with a covered brain and soul behind every covered woman. But then it may be argued that, although they are very few, some independent women, who are independent either because of their frame of mind or because of social-economic privileges, cover up too. That is true; but what about group pressure and the stringent socialization they have undergone since childhood when pre-modern values were internalized -- values that are sustained by the group they still live amongst? How many fully covered Muslim women can we find living alone with economic and social independence outside a conservative Muslim community in a modern part of the world? |
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=58154
if we assume that she is right, then the headscarf is associated in general with some attitudes that need to change.
can i ask a you people a question ?
do you feel the same when you see an old woman (60, 70, etc years old) with a headscarf , and when you see a 10-year old girl with a headscarf?
i dont know how do explain it, but the first brings in mind tradition, while the second... oppression.
is it just me , or should i visit the closest psychatrist ?
perhaps i am full of stereotypes and i dont want to admit it  |
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Crash Test Dummy
Warnings : 3
Ministerial
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 4911
Location: London(ish)
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| cypezokyli wrote: |
can i ask a you people a question ?
do you feel the same when you see an old woman (60, 70, etc years old) with a headscarf , and when you see a 10-year old girl with a headscarf?
i dont know how do explain it, but the first brings in mind tradition, while the second... oppression. |
this is a great point. I think religion is complete bullshit since 99% of people are forced into it. How can any child aged 2month decide they want to be christened?
old women is Cyprus (muslim or christian) wear head scarves all the time.
However I think the total face veil is inappropriate in general life.
If i was to walk about in a balaklava then most shops/banks will make me take it off. But since its religion its ok?
Sorry. double standards can kiss...
christening a child is opression, curcumsizing too.
Parents are supposed to educate their kids, not brian wash them  |
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zan
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 962
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| Crash Test Dummy wrote: |
| cypezokyli wrote: |
can i ask a you people a question ?
do you feel the same when you see an old woman (60, 70, etc years old) with a headscarf , and when you see a 10-year old girl with a headscarf?
i dont know how do explain it, but the first brings in mind tradition, while the second... oppression. |
this is a great point. I think religion is complete bullshit since 99% of people are forced into it. How can any child aged 2month decide they want to be christened?
old women is Cyprus (muslim or christian) wear head scarves all the time.
However I think the total face veil is inappropriate in general life.
If i was to walk about in a balaklava then most shops/banks will make me take it off. But since its religion its ok?
Sorry. double standards can kiss...
christening a child is opression, curcumsizing too.
Parents are supposed to educate their kids, not brian wash them |
Can I ask a similar question?
When you see a woman in a short skirt and make up on, what sort of feeling do you get when you see a ten year old that is allowed by her parents to dress the same way. Should she be oppressed in the name of decency.
I saw an Indian couple the other day that got out of a flash little boy racer car.
He was just like some of the usual Indian boys from around here. That is the ones that listen to rap music and talk like a New York rapper with an English/Indian accent. He even had the jeans half way down his ass and the trade mark thin beard and mustache these kids have these days.
She was dressed in traditional Indian clothing with the scarf on her head. The only part of their conversation I heard was her saying "You are fockin madd" to him in a Bradford accent.
There was an comedy show a few years back that had a cast of Indians that stared in it.It was called "Goodness Gracious Me". They made fun mostly of their own cultures which was Muslim and Sikhs. They also made fun of the English as well. In one sketch they showed an English yuppie dumping his Indian girlfriend because it was not fashionable anymore and it was more fashionable for a young rich Englishman to have an eastern European on his arm when he went to parties. I wonder what you guys make of that?
Children are oppressed by, not only their parents but the whole of the society in which they grow, no matter which country they are in. They are the first though to try to be different. They are the first to shun tradition and experiment with freedom. the question is would they make good parents at that age?
There is also the question of, why, as we get older and wiser do we start to embrace tradition and restraint? |
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Birkibrisli
Deputy
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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| Cypezokyli wrote: |
do you feel the same when you see an old woman (60, 70, etc years old) with a headscarf , and when you see a 10-year old girl with a headscarf?
i dont know how do explain it, but the first brings in mind tradition, while the second... oppression.
is it just me , or should i visit the closest psychatrist ?
perhaps i am full of stereotypes and i dont want to admit it
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I think your reaction is a natural one,Cypez...
A child would not have the maturity to decide by herself that she wants to wear a scarf.The idea obviously comes from the parents or from peer pressure.Either way you can say it is not the childs free will.There are kids as young as 6/7 wearing the full hijab in Australia. Can you imagine how different that child would feel in the general Australian society?
This problem is not limited to Islamic people.There are christian sects (the Bretheren comes to mind) where the women and girls also wear headscarfs. The Bretheren go further than that and forgid their children to associate with non-Bretherens. The Amish is another famous example of course. |
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Birkibrisli
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Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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| Zan wrote: |
I saw an Indian couple the other day that got out of a flash little boy racer car.
He was just like some of the usual Indian boys from around here. That is the ones that listen to rap music and talk like a New York rapper with an English/Indian accent. He even had the jeans half way down his ass and the trade mark thin beard and mustache these kids have these days.
She was dressed in traditional Indian clothing with the scarf on her head. The only part of their conversation I heard was her saying "You are fockin madd" to him in a Bradford accent.
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They were probably brother and sister,Zan,and the racy car was a present from their parents for being such good obedient kids  |
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Birkibrisli
Deputy
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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| Zan wrote: |
In one sketch they showed an English yuppie dumping his Indian girlfriend because it was not fashionable anymore and it was more fashionable for a young rich Englishman to have an eastern European on his arm when he went to parties. I wonder what you guys make of that?
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Treating women as fashion accessories is a universal custom,Zan...
Why do you expect the young rich Englishmen to be different? |
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cypezokyli
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Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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honestly now, but re-thinking about the question i posted just above,
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do you feel the same when you see an old woman (60, 70, etc years old) with a headscarf , and when you see a 10-year old girl with a headscarf?
i dont know how do explain it, but the first brings in mind tradition, while the second... oppression. |
perhaps the reality is that our grandmothers or that 60, 70, etc year old woman were also oppressed, even if we dont want to admit it. for us, ofcource she remains our beloved nene, married with our beloved grandpa, but if we really want to be honest the cypriot society was (and probably still is) extremely patriarchical.
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Can you imagine how different that child would feel in the general Australian society? |
perhaps the difference lies in the fact , that in our grandmothers society there was no other choise. and when everyone acts like that then it is turns into sth legitimate.
yet if you live in australia, the other choise exists , and maybe it is the constrast that makes me feel sorry about that 10-year old.
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| This problem is not limited to Islamic people.There are christian sects (the Bretheren comes to mind) where the women and girls also wear headscarfs. |
oh i know.... i met once an american girl in germany, who i couldnot describe as anything else than as religious fanatic. i dont know in what kind of christ she believed in but she wore a headscarf and when it comes to her views about any topic...well allow me not to comment on them!!! |
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zan
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 962
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perhaps the difference lies in the fact , that in our grandmothers society there was no other choise. and when everyone acts like that then it is turns into sth legitimate.
yet if you live in australia, the other choise exists , and maybe it is the constrast that makes me feel sorry about that 10-year old. |
The point I tried to make in my post. The same point I tried to apply to the question of gay animals. Should we now take the moral high ground and try to find a "cure"?????????? |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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| zan wrote: |
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perhaps the difference lies in the fact , that in our grandmothers society there was no other choise. and when everyone acts like that then it is turns into sth legitimate.
yet if you live in australia, the other choise exists , and maybe it is the constrast that makes me feel sorry about that 10-year old. |
The point I tried to make in my post. The same point I tried to apply to the question of gay animals. Should we now take the moral high ground and try to find a "cure"?????????? |
if you want my opinion, yes we should.
and i am not talking about the headscarf. the headscarf is the least. the girls can ofcource wear their headscarf and practice whatever religion they want. the headscarf is a problem only when it is accompanied with other things.
if we start with extreme examples then i believe we should find "a cure". i said this before: from a professor from canada, who experienced a girl leaving school at the age of 13 to marry, bc that was what her religion (some kind of chistian sect) said. and that was also what the girl "wanted". in this case yes, i believe that the law should be over any religion , and i dont believe that if the girl went five years more in school and then married that this is disrespect for a religion. and even if it is disrespect.. excuse me , butl i dont care.
the same holds for honor killings. perhaps they are accepted in some parts of the world, but when they happen in germany, i believe that the german state should find a cure. yes, of cource it should.
now, where is the line between an extreme case (the honor killing) and an "innocent tradition" (headscarf) , it is always difficult to tell. |
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