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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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| In your inimitable style ... but (with some difficulty) I tracked down what Jack Straw actually wrote. |
thanks the brix .
as far as i dont like this specific minister and his past, i once again fail to see , what is wrong with what he wrote ? am i getting blind or what ? 
is there anyone who is kind enough to share how it was presented in the press ? even if you have to go through a couple of low quality newspapers ? |
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thebrix
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 526
Location: London, United Kingdom
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| cypezokyli wrote: |
| Quote: |
| In your inimitable style ... but (with some difficulty) I tracked down what Jack Straw actually wrote. |
thanks the brix .
as far as i dont like this specific minister and his past, i once again fail to see , what is wrong with what he wrote ? am i getting blind or what ?
is there anyone who is kind enough to share how it was presented in the press ? even if you have to go through a couple of low quality newspapers ? |
Well ... the front page of the Daily Express says it all! (Although the question which led to the 97 per cent vote is not stated; phrasing is everything).
As you note, much of the media in the UK is incapable of presenting a subtle argument without applying a sledgehammer to it first  |
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Khan
Deputy
Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 1092
Location: London
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| You know it is a shame, that when there is a innocent British Muslim waiting to be hanged in a few weeks in Pakistan, the British press wastes its time stirring up nonsense like this. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1767
Location: Canada
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| Either way, Jack Straw as a politician, and as a Minister, shows a lack of sensitivity, and it is obvious that there is a bias for anything that is "British", being upper class, he is not one to talk. |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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as i said i dont like straw but heres what he sais :
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I defend absolutely the right of any woman to wear a headscarf.
As for the full veil, wearing it breaks no laws. |
they write :
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| Leader of the Commons Jack Straw spoke out against the veils. |
once again , i believe that straw wanted to open a dialogue, in order to understand islam, instead of accusing it in any kind of way.
remember he grew up in a country and he is used to certain things i.e. i want to see the face of the person i talk to. in short : would you mind if i see your face when we talk ?
a possible reply could be : why is it so important for you to see my face? isnt it more important what i say ? what do you think will change if you see my face ?
JS :answers, questions ?
Woman : answers another question
JS : answers, questions back....
this is how damn dialogue is conducted. how else will the famous "understating" ever be reached ?
....
somebody should do something with these media  |
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Cyprus rules!
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 668
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as i said i dont like straw but heres what he sais :
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Mmmm..I don't think too much of the guy either....although maybe that's not fair, as I've never met him...
It's his right to say how he feels, but Its also people's right to disagree with him...and that's Democracy folks!!   |
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thebrix
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 526
Location: London, United Kingdom
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| cypezokyli wrote: |
....
somebody should do something with these media |
Nothing has ever been done and it is unlikely anything will be; I remember 25 years ago when exactly the same exaggerations and distortions were being churned out in a different context (race riots)!
Certainly the (two) journalists I know are ultra-defensive on this topic. Their "line" is a combination of "I have a mortgage to pay" (in other words, if I complained I would lose my job) and "if we admitted error, everyone would pile in with trivial complaints demanding an answer".
The obvious stop to the second would be not to make the errors/exaggerations/distortions in the first place, but there is a horror of "dullness" and "worthiness".
Certainly never admitting error has more or less discredited the media for me. Things are a bit better than they were, but there was a time when I could pick up the Financial Times and find half-a-dozen factual errors in the lead story on the front page! |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1767
Location: Canada
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"I am a Muslim woman. I cover head-to-toe; which means the only thing I leave exposed are my eyes and hands. Pretty naturally Straws comments have enraged me. Am I being told how to dress in my own home country?? "
When in Rome, do as the Romans. Madam, its time to adapt maybe just a little.
ADAPT ADAPT, ADAPT. In your own home country it is customary for the veil NOT to be worn. It is customary for women to be out, in society, participating, leading, contributing, engaged. Have you not noticed? Its not just about apparel. Its about a view of the role of women.
You have chosen to adopt an Eastern religion and live in the West. ADAPT. Make it work. I am sure you can find a way to be a Muslim and still LIVE in England.
Your feelings of OTHERNESS are created by your insistence on BEING OTHER. The veil is not a genetic feature or biological fact, its an apparel choice. Making people accept you as you are can sometimes, we all know, be difficult (handicapped people have such challenges). Asking other people to accept you as you CHOOSE TO BE. This is your challenge. Make your choice WORK for you.
And PLEASE do not be disengenuous and hide behind religious freedom. Your are an intelligent person. Acknowledge and address directly that your preferred form of dress is known as a symbol of subjugation - a clear indication of second class status of women (to westerners). Strive to educate us on how this is NOT true or how this does not matter.
Your RAGE is meaningless. It contributes nothing. Is it supposed to frieghten someone? Get reacquainted with the western traditions of dialogue and discernment. Why not explain how your choice is actually congruent with and advances the values and rights of women in the West? Hard one to answer isn't it. |
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/blog/index.var.488.0.i_want_to_unveil_my_views_on_an_important_issue.php
The point being that the face is hidden so that the words spoken, (or acts taken), can have a meaning that are uniquely significant, removed from the appearance of the person.
Fashion statement?; Pity men don't wear them. |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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a very interesting article on the topic from a turkish (woman) journalist :
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'I wear it in accordance with my belief'
AYŞE ÖZGÜN
I agree 90 percent with what Jack Straw says: "Islamic women must remove their veils." My 10 percent disagreement with Straw's declaration is this: He seems to take for granted that the Koran demands that these women cover their nose, eyes, eyebrows, ears, cheeks and hair in accordance with the dictates of Islam. This is a completely false assumption. This covering of the head and face is a movement and the continuation on of an antiquated tradition that has lately reached its height and pinnacle with the excuse given by these women in one simple and single sentence: "I wear it in accordance with my belief."
What belief? With what do you accord your belief?
Where does it indicate in the Koran that your face, but for your eyes, need to be covered? Just which verse or sura are you referring to? We have seen the women of Afghanistan carrying this tradition even further by covering their eyeballs by hiding behind a prison-like stitched net.
Come on, women! Stop fooling the world by indicating this is an act of Islam!
I look at the picture of Islamic women in London and I shudder. They are all dressed in pitch black from head to toe with only a hair-raising slit around the eyes through which they look at the world around them. Most of them have applied black eyeliner makeup to make their �look� more dramatic. With this garb, they are noticed. They draw attention. People turn and look at them twice. They do not mix, they do not melt in with those around them. This must give them a �giddy� feeling. They must be in dire need of this attention.
Take the case of the teacher who was removed from school on account of wearing a veil. She declares that she does not wear her veil in class when she is with the children. She says she wraps it around her head and face only in the teacher's room when there are male teachers around her. Oh my! She must seriously think these gentlemen have no other intention in life other than jumping on her at recess. What she does not consider is the effect such an act would have on her classroom. Students will see her face in class but watch her wrapping herself up during recess for fear the gentlemen teachers may be jumping on her. How much more ridiculous can things get? What kind of a role model is this in today's ever-shrinking world?
Teachers are role models for children. Their words are listened to and their actions closely watched. A teacher molds a child's train of thought and way of looking at life. If my child was assigned to a classroom where a supposedly Muslim teacher was in attendance carrying out the actions that this teacher has, I'd pull my baby out on the double and report her to the authorities for removal because she SIMPLY was not acting like a true Muslim woman, in accordance with the teachings of the Koran. Need anything further be said? |
full article
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=57078 |
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Leyla
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 612
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| Superbly written..my sentiments exactly.. |
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Alexios
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 976
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The fact is that women covering up has as much to do with tradition as it has with religion in an interelated way. Go to any village in Cyprus today and you ll see the majority of old women covering their heads with a black mandila.In fact, in Paphos atleast, the custom was that non married women wore a white mandila.
This had nothing to do with old age...not many years ago it was considered improper for a girl over a certain age not to cover her hair.It was also improper to wear a dress that would reveal as much as her ankles!!! |
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Bananiot
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 1214
Location: Nicosia
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| I find mandilas (head scarves) very sensual. It is ecstatic, when the woman removes it and the hair glides gracefully over the shoulders. |
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Leyla
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 612
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I'm not talking about headscarves..I mean the top to toe black with only her eyes showing..
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with headscarves and respecting women who choose to wear one, but please..not that top to toe shroud.. |
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Leyla
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 612
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PS Unless of course she is an under cover Ninjitsu expert...  |
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Bananiot
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 1214
Location: Nicosia
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| No, no Leyla. I am sure Alexios will get my drift. |
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