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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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Angelos Marcopoulos reports from Strasbourg
Turkey must implement Rights Court rulings on Cyprus!
http://www.cyprusweekly.com.cy/default.aspx?FrontPageNewsID=304_1
Two key Council of Europe Rapporteurs warned Turkey it's continuing membership of the Council, as well as its wish to join the European Union, will be affected if it continues to refuse to implement the judgements of the European Court of Human Rights.
The Court found Turlkey guilty of preventintg the Greek Cypriot refugees from returning to their homes and from regaining their usurped homes and properties in the Turkish occupied north of the island.
The twin warnings coincided with the adoption of a resolution of major importance for Cyprus which asks the 46 member states of the CoE to ensure that the Rights Court judgements are fully implemented.
"There is a real implementation gap there,'' Thomas Hammarberg, the new CoE Commissioner on Human Rights said in reply to a Cyprus Weekly question mainly about Turkey's failure to implement ECHR's judgements dealing with the usrped rights of Greek Cypriot refugees.
The other warning came from Erike Jurgens, the CoE Rapporteur on the implementnation of the Rights Court judgements. "The EuroCourt of Human Rights is the backbone of the Council of Europe and of the whole of Europe. If its decisions are not implemented, it's the whole system we built during half a Century, that could disappear,'' he said.
During an interview with The Cyprus Weekly Jurgens made a most significant statement linking the failure of the Annan Plan to the fact that this was due to the fact that it ignored the judgements of the Rights Court recognising the right of the refugees to return and to regain their properties.
What is equally important added Jurgens is that Turkey ``as the country that is in fact in charge of north Cyprus still has an obligation to implement the Court rulings.''
He warned Turkey with expulsion from the CoE if its continues to ignore the Court rulings. ``If a country persistently refuses to implement EuroCourt decisions this could be a good reason to tell it that: `if you do that, then you cannot take part in CoE Assembly meeytings any more,'" he said.
Jurgens also stressed that the implementnation of all the Court judgements dealing with Cyprus ``may constitute a valuable and tangible contribution of the CoE to a comprehensive solution of the Cyprus issue.'' |
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100%cypriot
Warnings : 4
Ministerial
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 2181
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I think in the long term it will work against Cyprus if Turkey is rejected , What will Tpap and his cronies have to hit Turkey with in the Future ?
Its a very dangerous game that the EU is playing and Cyprus will get the blame when it all goes wrong for the EU |
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SP
Senior Villager
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 267
Location: Girne
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| 100%cypriot wrote: |
I think in the long term it will work against Cyprus if Turkey is rejected , What will Tpap and his cronies have to hit Turkey with in the Future ?
Its a very dangerous game that the EU is playing and Cyprus will get the blame when it all goes wrong for the EU |
Maybe Tpap doesn't really care and just wants to be remebered as the man who blocked Turkey's entry into the EU. This would make him a hero in many people eyes. The same people who see the admission of Republic of Cyprus into EU as a great victory for Greece. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| The reason I posted the above was to show to all of you the Turkish Cypriots what a liability you have become for Turkey, by continuing to maintain your irredentist and uncompromising attitudes visa vie a solution of the Cyprus problem. You will cost Turkey’s EU accession to be destroyed. Next you will cost Turkey’s expulsion from the council of Europe, and then who knows, you may even cost its expulsion from the UN as well. What will all these mean? Turkey will relegate into some third world country that no one will take seriously, and without any international credibility and political weight. Aren’t you ashamed, 100,000 Turkish Cypriots to hold the fait and progress of 70 million Turks a hostage to your illegitimate aspirations and demands in Cyprus? |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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just to avoid confusion
the council of europe ,
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Origins and membership
The Council of Europe is the continent's oldest political organisation, founded in 1949. It:
• groups together 46 countries, including 21 countries from Central and Eastern Europe,
• has application from two more countries (Belarus and Montenegro),
• has granted observer status to 5 more countries (the Holy See, the United States, Canada, Japan and Mexico),
• is distinct from the 25-nation European Union, but no country has ever joined the Union without first belonging to the Council of Europe,
• has its headquarters in Strasbourg, in north-eastern France.
«The aim of the Council of Europe is to achieve a greater unity between its members...»
Article 1 - Statute of the Council of Europe
Aims
The Council was set up to:
• defend human rights, parliamentary democracy and the rule of law,
• develop continent-wide agreements to standardise member countries' social and legal practices,
• promote awareness of a European identity based on shared values and cutting across different cultures.
Since 1989, its main job has become:
• acting as a political anchor and human rights watchdog for Europe's post-communist democracies,
• assisting the countries of central and eastern Europe in carrying out and consolidating political, legal and constitutional reform in parallel with economic reform,
• providing know-how in areas such as human rights, local democracy, education, culture and the environment. |
http://www.coe.int/T/e/Com/about_coe/
its not the same as the EU (and it is not the EU council either: http://ue.eu.int/cms3_fo/index.htm
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The Council is the main decision-making body of the European Union
The ministers of the Member States meet within the Council of the European Union. Depending on the issue on the agenda, each country will be represented by the minister responsible for that subject (foreign affairs, finance, social affairs, transport, agriculture, etc.).
The presidency of the Council is held for six months by each Member State on a rotational basis. |
turkey is a member of the council of europe.
it was kicked out before
(greece was also kicked out during the military dictatorship) |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2880
Location: Australia
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AND you ALL forgot one thing?
Cyprus was ready to become a member in 1975 BUT what happened?
Cheers |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| The reason I posted the above was to show to all of you the Turkish Cypriots what a liability you have become for Turkey, by continuing to maintain your irredentist and uncompromising attitudes visa vie a solution of the Cyprus problem. You will cost Turkey’s EU accession to be destroyed. Next you will cost Turkey’s expulsion from the council of Europe, and then who knows, you may even cost its expulsion from the UN as well. What will all these mean? Turkey will relegate into some third world country that no one will take seriously, and without any international credibility and political weight. Aren’t you ashamed, 100,000 Turkish Cypriots to hold the fait and progress of 70 million Turks a hostage to your illegitimate aspirations and demands in Cyprus? |
Lol. The Turkish Cypriot community can not and does not make Turkey do anything. Turkey supports the Turkish Cypriot community because it believe it is right and just to do so and or it believes it is in Turkey's interests to support the Turkish Cypriot community.
Of course there is no such thing as the Greek Cypriot community holding 70 million turks EU aspirations hostage by continuing to maintain irredentist and uncompromising attitudes visa vie a solution of the Cyprus problem is there ?
Turkey will not be expelled from the CoE. It will meet the ECHR requirements via the property commission (which the ECHR told it to set - and which when it is finaly recognised as a legitimate local remedy - Greek Cypriot like yourself will denounce the ECHR as unfair and anti Greek Cypriot and in the pay of the anglo american forces determined to destroy the Greek Cypriot people). Nor is there any chance of it being 'kicked out' of the UN, for if failing to observe UN resolutions was a means for such an expulsion most of the permanent members of the UN security council would have been kicked out along with many many other countries as well.
You live in a fantasy world Kifeas. One where the reality of the Greek Cypriot leadership trying to hold Turkey's EU accession hostage to their most extreme demands (opening ports with no compromise from Republic of Cyprus, recognition of the current Republic of Cyprus with no compromise from the Republic of Cyprus, withdrawing troops with no compromise from the Republic of Cyprus) is turned into the fantasy of the Turkish Cypriot communty holding Turkish EU entry hostage.
Let me try and explain how the real world works. In the real world to hold someone (or something) hostage you have to have power over that person or thing. The Turkish Cypriot community has no power over Turkey. The Republic of Cyprus - having once again been rewarded by the international community for its illegalities and violence in the 60's and 70's with EU entry has some power over Turkey and it is using this to hold Turkey hostage to its maximal demands. Once again (imho) the Greek Cypriot communities leadership have totally overestimated their actual power over Turkey and totally underestimated Turkeys commitment to the Turkish Cypriot people - and imho this will once again lead to disaster (if you consider non reunification of cyprus a disaster that is).
We have some saying in england.
Look at the pot calling the kettle black
and
People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| erolz wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
| The reason I posted the above was to show to all of you the Turkish Cypriots what a liability you have become for Turkey, by continuing to maintain your irredentist and uncompromising attitudes visa vie a solution of the Cyprus problem. You will cost Turkey’s EU accession to be destroyed. Next you will cost Turkey’s expulsion from the council of Europe, and then who knows, you may even cost its expulsion from the UN as well. What will all these mean? Turkey will relegate into some third world country that no one will take seriously, and without any international credibility and political weight. Aren’t you ashamed, 100,000 Turkish Cypriots to hold the fait and progress of 70 million Turks a hostage to your illegitimate aspirations and demands in Cyprus? |
Lol. The Turkish Cypriot community can not and does not make Turkey do anything. Turkey supports the Turkish Cypriot community because it believe it is right and just to do so and or it believes it is in Turkey's interests to support the Turkish Cypriot community.
Of course there is no such thing as the Greek Cypriot community holding 70 million turks EU aspirations hostage by continuing to maintain irredentist and uncompromising attitudes visa vie a solution of the Cyprus problem is there ?
Turkey will not be expelled from the CoE. It will meet the ECHR requirements via the property commission (which the ECHR told it to set - and which when it is finaly recognised as a legitimate local remedy - Greek Cypriot like yourself will denounce the ECHR as unfair and anti Greek Cypriot and in the pay of the anglo american forces determined to destroy the Greek Cypriot people). Nor is there any chance of it being 'kicked out' of the UN, for if failing to observe UN resolutions was a means for such an expulsion most of the permanent members of the UN security council would have been kicked out along with many many other countries as well.
You live in a fantasy world Kifeas. One where the reality of the Greek Cypriot leadership trying to hold Turkey's EU accession hostage to their most extreme demands (opening ports with no compromise from Republic of Cyprus, recognition of the current Republic of Cyprus with no compromise from the Republic of Cyprus, withdrawing troops with no compromise from the Republic of Cyprus) is turned into the fantasy of the Turkish Cypriot communty holding Turkish EU entry hostage.
Let me try and explain how the real world works. In the real world to hold someone (or something) hostage you have to have power over that person or thing. The Turkish Cypriot community has no power over Turkey. The Republic of Cyprus - having once again been rewarded by the international community for its illegalities and violence in the 60's and 70's with EU entry has some power over Turkey and it is using this to hold Turkey hostage to its maximal demands. Once again (imho) the Greek Cypriot communities leadership have totally overestimated their actual power over Turkey and totally underestimated Turkeys commitment to the Turkish Cypriot people - and imho this will once again lead to disaster (if you consider non reunification of cyprus a disaster that is).
We have some saying in england.
Look at the pot calling the kettle black
and
People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. |
You know something? The more I read your posts, the more I wish to see a clash of trains between Turkey and the EU at the end of the year. I feel that you live in such a fantasy, and you hold your nose so high, that the only way to come to your senses and drop your nose a bit, is for this train clash to indeed take place. There is no end to your sophistries and the manipulation of reality that I do not think it worth and makes sense bothering with your comments any more. Take care! |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| You know something? The more I read your posts, the more I wish to see a clash of trains between Turkey and the EU at the end of the year. |
You want to see such a crash unless Turkey capitulates to every and any Republic of Cyprus demand over cyprus, just as your ex eoka president also would like to see. It has nothing to do with my posts and everything to do with your hatred of Turks imo.
| Kifeas wrote: |
I feel that you live in such a fantasy, and you hold your nose so high, that the only way to come to your senses and drop your nose a bit, is for this train clash to indeed take place. There is no end to your sophistries and the manipulation of reality that I do not think it worth and makes sense bothering with your comments any more. Take care! |
So explain to me just how it is that the Turkish Cypriot community is blackmailing / holding Turkey hostage? Do you think we hold compromising pictures of the Erdogan and a cypriot donkey and have told him that unless he puts Turkish EU accession , CoE membership and UN membership on the line for us against his (and the Turkish peoples) will, we will reveal them to the world ? Please oh wise one do explain to this poor simple Turkish Cypriot peasant exactly how does the Turkish Cypriot community hold Turkey hostage? For in one breath you (singular and plural) claim that the Turkish Cypriot people have no power even over their own lives in the face of Turkey AND we also hold Turkey hostage. As 'sophisticated' as my peasant mind may be I struggle to understand how both of these are possible?
Please do, as you have promised so many times in the past to do and yet not done, not bother with my comments in the future. I shall continue to challenge your nonsense none the less as is my right to do so.
Reality check. Someone is trying to hold Turkish EU aspirations hostage to their demands re Cyprus - and its NOT the Turkish Cypriot community. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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Please keep trying to challenge my “nonsense” with your nonsense! In this way you only prove how objective and accurate I am!  |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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The following is an article from Turkish Daily News, by its Turkish Cypriot chief editor, Yusuf Kanli. The message in his article is clear, and coincides with my earlier post in this threat, which Mr. Erol rushed to declare a "nonsense!"
| TDN wrote: |
We must learn to ask 'What is in it for Turkey?'
Friday, October 6, 2006
Yusuf KANLI
There are of course people hoping to see a crisis between the civilian government and the top military brass of our country. A predicament in Turkish-EU accession talks over the Cyprus issue or a failure of the government to eradicate freedom of expression problems emanating from the contentious Article 301 of the penal code would perhaps be additional good news for those who have pinned their hopes of getting rid of the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) to such unfortunate developments. Such developments before the upcoming presidential election and the parliamentary elections in November of next year will perhaps serve some nationalist or Kemalist political groups.
As a Cypriot, I have the luxury of saying wholeheartedly that, including Cyprus, nothing is more important for this country than its own national interests, advancing its economic, cultural and political progress and integration with the league of democratic nations. Refusing to compromise an inch on Cyprus might sound good to nationalistic sentiments; however, we should bear in mind that a weakened Turkey will not be able to help the Turkish Cypriot people all the time. However, a Turkey that has a place in the league of democratic nations, who has integrated its economy with the global economy and who has become a key player not only in its neighborhood but also in international politics may bring an end to whatever suffering might be produced by a compromise on Cyprus dictated by the prevailing conditions or emanating from our own past mistakes.
Turkey cannot and should not let its future be held hostage by the Cyprus issue or by the strong sentiments of the nationalist flank on Article 301 or any such rather primitive mentality, which should not have any place in any democratic society, anyhow.
Now, Turkey and the EU are negotiating a way out from the Cyprus quagmire haunting the accession process. Turkey is definitely right in its position that it cannot open its ports and airports to the Greek Cypriots before the EU fulfills its pledge and brings an end to Turkish Cypriot isolation. The EU, on the other hand, is perfectly right in stressing that Turkey cannot continue the accession talks process and keep its ports closed to one of the 25 members of the club at the same time. The United Nations has declared its readiness to contribute to the efforts of Turkey and the EU to find a solution to the current Cyprus complication in the EU accession process. We should lend an attentive ear to the offers made and perhaps try to be more flexible and forthcoming, taking into account the overall interests of our country.
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http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=55977
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What is Yusuf kanli tellng the Turkish government and people not to do?
He tells them:
"Turkey cannot and should not let its future be held hostage by the Cyprus issue or by the strong sentiments of the nationalist flank on Article 301 or any such rather primitive mentality, which should not have any place in any democratic society, anyhow."
Why is he starting his article in the following way, and makes special emphasis on the fact that he is a Cypriot?
"As a Cypriot, I have the luxury of saying wholeheartedly that, including Cyprus, nothing is more important for this country than its own national interests, advancing its economic, cultural and political progress and integration with the league of democratic nations."
He emphasizes the fact that he talks as a Cypriot, because he realizes that the Cyprus issue for the mainland Turks has become an emotional issue, an issue of national “pride” and a taboo, and something that very few in Turkey can handle in a sensible and rational manner because they may be accused of "betrayal" of the "Turkish Cypriot cause!" Who can help Turkey to come out of the loop and the emotional vicious circle that Rauf Denktash has created in their minds during all these years? No one else other than the Turkish Cypriots themselves! This is what Yusuf Kanli realizes, and that is why he talks in the above way. This is what Kifeas has also said in his previous post, which Mr. Erol deemed “nonsense!”
Kifeas said to the Turkish Cypriots to stop victimizing Turkey, by making it hold its future a hostage to their intrasigence, and try to help it to get out of the loop! Yusuf Kanli, in his article, does precisely that! He tells the Turks not to let themselves become victimized by their sentimentalisms in relation to the Cyprus issue. Unlike Erol, He is trying to help Turkey! |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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Kifeas try and spot and understand the difference between
"Turkey cannot and should not let its future be held hostage by the Cyprus issue"
and
"Turkey cannot and should not let its future be held hostage by the Turkish Cypriot communities illegitimate aspirations and demands in Cyprus"
In one (the first) it is Turkey herself that is holding her own future hostage, in the opinion of the author. In the second it is the Turkish Cypriot community. You claimed the second and offer the first as an indication that your assertion is not nonsense.
When Yusuf Kanali (talking to the Turkish people not the Turkish Cypriot community) says
| Quote: |
| We should lend an attentive ear to the offers made and perhaps try to be more flexible and forthcoming, taking into account the overall interests of our country. |
The 'we' clearly refers to turks and not Turkish Cypriot. No where does he claim - as you have - that it is the Turkish Cypriot community that is holding Turkey hostage. That Turkey wants to be more flexible but irredisent Turkish Cypriot will not let them. The very notion is absurd, yet it is the entire thrust of your original post. |
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PAul
Senior Villager
Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 153
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Erloz,
A great posting as usual, met with the usual kiefes slurs:
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| Kifeas wrote: |
Aren’t you ashamed, 100,000 Turkish Cypriots to hold the fait and progress of 70 million Turks a hostage to your illegitimate aspirations and demands in Cyprus?
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Kifeas, maybe you shouldn't talk about things that you don't understand. The claim that 100,000 Turkish Cypriots is holding Turkey as a hostage is completely absurd and it can only come from someone who has no idea of what goes on in the north and what the relationship between Turkey and Turkish Cypriots is. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Mete wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
Aren’t you ashamed, 100,000 Turkish Cypriots to hold the fait and progress of 70 million Turks a hostage to your illegitimate aspirations and demands in Cyprus?
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Kifeas, maybe you shouldn't talk about things that you don't understand. The claim that 100,000 Turkish Cypriots is holding Turkey as a hostage is completely absurd and it can only come from someone who has no idea of what goes on in the north and what the relationship between Turkey and Turkish Cypriots is. |
Why is it absurd? Don’t they say in Turkey that it is not logical for 700,000 Greek Cypriots to hold the future of 70 million Turks a hostage? Don’t they say that it is not logical for the entire EU to be held a hostage of the Greek Cypriots? I read the above numerous times. Even Erdogan has said something like this a few days ago. Isn’t it also absurd?
Anyhow, since you say that I have “no idea of what goes on in the north and what the relationship between Turkey and Turkish Cypriots is,” can you please enlighten me a bit? |
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