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| Should we apologise for past demenours???? |
| Yes as it is the way forward. |
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66% |
[ 14 ] |
| No i don't think so. |
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9% |
[ 2 ] |
| They got what they deserved and its better this way. |
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14% |
[ 3 ] |
| I don't care |
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9% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 21 |
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| Author |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| erolz wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
| erolz wrote: |
| You do not gain self determination by handing the sovereignty of your country to an external foreign power and political executive power to a center based in another country over 800km away.Nor do you gain the exercise of your right to self determination by obliterating that right by subsuming it into the will of foreign country. These are the fundamental madnesses of ENOSIS idea. |
Are these your only arguments against Enosis in the 50’s? If yes, then allow me to call them nonsense! |
Call them what you want. The fact remains that the very notion of 'union with another country' as an expression of (cypriot) 'independance' and the desire to subsume the cypriot right to self determination into the self determination of Greeks - as an expression of Cypriot self determination is was and will always be nonsense.
| Kifeas wrote: |
Cyprus at the time was not a sovereign entity, to have to hand over its sovereignty to another country. |
To have achieved ENOSIS would have been to hand Cypriot sovereignty to Greece.
| Kifeas wrote: |
The majority of the indigenous inhabitants of the place did not see Greece and its people as an external foreign power, but instead -rightfully or wrongfully, they saw themselves as part of the same people (or nation in its broader sense.) |
No the majority of the Greek Cypriot community, which were the cultural descendants of the Hellenic cultural invaders of Cyprus that had replaced and destroyed (culturally) the indigenous Cypriot people may not have seen Greece as a foreign power - but Greece is a foreign power none the less. It was then and remains so today. Of course the Turkish Cypriot community , which were the descendants of the ottoman invaders that did not destroy (culturally) the Greek Cypriot people did NOT see Greece as the same people or Cyprus as part of the Greek nation. Of course in your world of human rights and self determination the Turkish Cypriot community could have NO say in such a matter - they just were supposed to agree to hand their country and homeland over to Greece because there were more Greek Cypriot in Cyprus than Turkish Cypriot and have no voice or say in such a fundamental issue.
| Kifeas wrote: |
As for the distance, allow me to tell you that the furthermost south east corner of Turkey’s vicinity is situated almost 1,100 kms far away from the capital Ankara. Falkland (or Maldives) islands are situated 12,000 kms away from London, the capital of your other motherland. |
Let me tell you that I believe it is madness for the UK to claim sovereignty over the Falklands - and principally on the sheer fact of disconnected geography.
ENOSIS was and is a nonsense. To claim ENOSIS was an expression of 'independance' is total nonsense - ENOSIS is was and will remain the antithesis of Cypriot independence. To claim one of the rights of self determination is to destroy ones right to self determination is also a nonsense. ENOSIS was is and always will be an expression of the GREEK expansionist nationalism on which the modern Greek nation was ideologically founded and has led to Greece today being the single most expansionist nation in the history of modern nations. The desire for ENOSIS amongst Greek Cypriot in Cyprus (and it is not clear how genuine such a desire was in the Greek Cypriot people in the 50's - given the climate of fear and intimidation and violence that EOKA had bought to the island) is the result of 100+ years of brainwashing by Greek run and controlled education in Cyprus and the Greek orthodox church. It is in the name and pursuit of this nonsense that Cyprus was destroyed - as the chief architect of this disaster came to admit himself.
ENOSIS was ideological nonsense as an expression of independence and self determination of CYPRIOTS. It was in practical terms madness (wanting to unify with a country itself in turmoil and with a lower standard of living, a worse political and physical infrastructure and more besides). It was also unachievable in the realities of the world - which surprise surprise contain more than just Greeks and Greek Cypriot. Those are the realities of ENOSIS then and now as far as I am concerned. |
What a bunch of nonsense! What a joke! I can't believe someone can possibly claim all the above, and yet expect to be taken seriously! Get serious Erol! Get real, and live the opinionated bullshiting aside! I mean… what you have said is a non-starter even to attempt commenting on any single thing out of them. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| erolz wrote: |
EOKA was NOT 'purely' a liberation struggle - its stated aim and goal was ENOSIS and that makes it much more than 'purely' a liberation struggle. EOKA killed Greek Cypriot, Turkish Cypriot and British - some because they opposed ENOSIS (not liberation but enosis) or supported bicommunal respect and some (mainly Greek Cypriot) because they were to 'communist leaning'. If you define a terrorist orgnaisation by how they behave then there is no doubt that EOKA was a terrorist organisation for they sought to use fear terror and intimidation to achieve their political goals. Form me it matters not how just those goals may or may not have been, it matters what they did. Shooting the pregnant wife of a British service man in the back whilst she was out shopping is clearly an act of terror and thus the perpetrators in my book were clearly terrorists.
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I have always maintained -and still do, that the Eoka's 1955 union struggle, from a political perspective, was a mistake and a miscalculation. However, I cannot cope reading preposterous nihilistic arguments on the part of some people that try to dispute its legitimacy and reduce it to a mere “illegal,” immoral and criminal assumption by a bunch of terrorist thugs whose only objective was to kill other people and create a chaos and a catastrophe to the island and its people.
Erolz, what evidence do you have to claim that the killing of the pregnant English lady was ordered by the Eoka organization itself (or within the framework of its directives to its members,) and not instead the personal initiative of someone that appeared or claimed to be an Eoka fighter, acting on his own primitive instincts and accords?
Can you please name me one such armed liberation struggle that you know in history, during which unjustified killings (murders) of innocent people did not take place? Do you know of any other such liberation organization in the history of mankind -that had chosen to fight a guerrilla war, and in which it did not seek to use fear terror and intimidation as one of means to carry out their struggle and achieve their goals? Can you please name me just one, or do you regard all such organizations as terrorist ones?
The beginning of the Eoka struggled was signaled out on the morning of 1st of April 1955, when about 50-60 bombs that were placed around Cyprus, exploded on colonial police and military installations and buildings. Can you tell me why not a single person was killed during all those explosions? Could it be due to the fact that they were placed in such a way as to avoid such killings, and if so, how does it fit with your narration of the Eoka struggle as a totally misguided one carried out by criminal thugs and terrorists?
Was the beating of the hell out of teenage students arrested by the British authorities after a student demonstration, a legitimate measure of suppressing the Eoka struggle, or was it also an act of counter terrorism?
Was the sentencing to death by a colonial court and the execution by hanging of an 18 year old (Evagoras Pallicarides,) after been arrested while transferring weapons on donkey a year before, at the age of 17, a legitimate law enforcement measure, or was it equally an act of counter terrorism on the part of the colonialists?
Was the arbitrary arresting of several hundreds of Cypriots and the keeping for months (many of them for 2-3 years) and torturing the hell out of them in concentration camps in Pyla and kokkinotrimithia areas, a legitimate law enforcement measure, or an act of counter terrorism by the colonialists?
Was the pouring of petrol and the burning alive of an Eoka fighter (Gregories Avxendiou) inside his encircled underground hide-out, after refusing to surrender, a legitimate act of law enforcement, or it was also an act of brutal murder of the worst kind on the part of the colonial forces? |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Kifeas wrote: |
What a bunch of nonsense! What a joke! I can't believe someone can possibly claim all the above, and yet expect to be taken seriously! Get serious Erol! Get real, and live the opinionated bullshiting aside! I mean… what you have said is a non-starter even to attempt commenting on any single thing out of them. |
I expect nothing in general and even less from yourself.
It really is very simple. The desire to make Cyprus a backwater province of Greece was not, is not and can not be an expression of Cypriot independence because in involves inherently that Cyprus is not and can not be independent. It really is very simple. Either Cyprus is independent or it is not independent but it a province of another existing state. The two are so clearly mutually exclusive that it's embarrassing to have to point it out really. |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| However, I cannot cope reading preposterous nihilistic arguments on the part of some people that try to dispute its legitimacy and reduce it to a mere “illegal,” immoral and criminal assumption by a bunch of terrorist thugs whose only objective was to kill other people and create a chaos and a catastrophe to the island and its people. |
So who are these people that have called the pursuit of ENOSIS by the Greek Cypriot community (though really a Greek Cypriot elite leading the Greek Cypriot community) 'illegal, imoral or criminal? Certainly no where I have said as much. I have have it was a stupid persuit. I have said that it was an unrealistic and unachievable desire. I have said that some of the means used to ersue it were illegal, criminal and imoral. I have said that it is nonsense to talk of the persuit of ENOSIS as an expression of the desire of Cypriots for indepenace - because it is.
| Kifeas wrote: |
Erolz, what evidence do you have to claim that the killing of the pregnant English lady was ordered by the Eoka organization itself (or within the framework of its directives to its members,) and not instead the personal initiative of someone that appeared or claimed to be an Eoka fighter, acting on his own primitive instincts and accords? |
Where have I claimed that this execution was ordered by the EOKA organisation ? No where is the answer. What I said was that Grivas gave orders that certain Greek Cypriot were to be killed and they were killed. Do you dispute this? I pointed out that EOKA committed terrorist acts and therefore was a terrorist organisation.
| Kifeas wrote: |
Can you please name me one such armed liberation struggle that you know in history, during which unjustified killings (murders) of innocent people did not take place? Do you know of any other such liberation organization in the history of mankind -that had chosen to fight a guerrilla war, and in which it did not seek to use fear terror and intimidation as one of means to carry out their struggle and achieve their goals? Can you please name me just one, or do you regard all such organizations as terrorist ones? |
I can give you an example of 'unarmed' liberation struggle where independence was gained from British colonial rule without unjustified killings.
Any organisation that uses violence and fear and terror outside of the law of the land at the time is by definition a terrorists organisation. It is not the 'ends' that define an orgnaisation as terrorist or not, it is the means used to achieve those ends. If terrorist means are used , then no matter how noble the cause, the organisation is terrorist. Some may argue that such terrorist activities are 'justified' in certain circumstances. I am not one of those people in general and I do not personally think resort to violence was necessary in Cyprus in order to achieve independence.
| Kifeas wrote: |
... and if so, how does it fit with your narration of the Eoka struggle as a totally misguided one carried out by criminal thugs and terrorists? |
I made no such narration. I have said that the persuit of ENOSIS in the 50's by Greek Cypriot was misguided - as you yourself also say. I have said that EOKA was run by a brutal thug more than prepared to kill those who stood in the way of his ambitions - because it is true. Grivas was a brutal thug - not just in Cyprus but before that in his WW2 activities in Greece.
As for the acts of the 'states' I also believe that these too can be terrorist acts - thouhg many others dispute this. I personaly am of the view that the US is currently the biggest 'terrorist' around as no one uses fear and violence and terror of such to achieve its politcal aims as widely as the US state does. Certainly some of the actions taken by the British in response to a resort to violence could be considered terrorist acts themselves. For me that is the very problem of the use of terror for political aims. Terror breeds terror in a horrible vicious circle - which is why personaly I renounce violence in all it's forms. |
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Bullika
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 3025
Location: World
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| erolz wrote: |
| You do not gain self determination by handing the sovereignty of your country to an external foreign power and political executive power to a center based in another country over 800km away.Nor do you gain the exercise of your right to self determination by obliterating that right by subsuming it into the will of foreign country. These are the fundamental madnesses of ENOSIS idea. |
Are these your only arguments against Enosis in the 50’s? If yes, then allow me to call them nonsense!
Cyprus at the time was not a sovereign entity, to have to hand over its sovereignty to another country. The majority of the indigenous inhabitants of the place did not see Greece and its people as an external foreign power, but instead -rightfully or wrongfully, they saw themselves as part of the same people (or nation in its broader sense.) As for the distance, allow me to tell you that the furthermost south east corner of Turkey’s vicinity is situated almost 1,100 kms far away from the capital Ankara. Falkland (or Maldives) islands are situated 12,000 kms away from London, the capital of your other motherland. |
I'm just wondering out a loud here, judging by the recent rumours by both the BBC and Cyprus Mail of jerrymandering by the church in ecclysiastical elections there, I wonder just how accurate it is to assent to the commonly accepted view that a majority of cypriotgreeks wanted enosis. i personally have my doubts. |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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It is my personal view that enosis, taksim, etc were all just ideas of the elite. The average person just did not care....they had more important things to worry about(like what they were going to eat that day..where there next bit of food or money was going to come from). Im not saying that people did not support enosis, but just that im sure they were largely indifferent. If the main political will was for independance, people would have supported that with jsut as much enthusiasm imo.
plus the fact the 'referendum' took place in churches is another reason why the results should definately be questioned. Also, since the 'leader' of the Greek Cypriots (makarios) was the head of the church(and supported enosis at that time!). |
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Bananiot
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 1214
Location: Nicosia
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In 1957, two english 18 year old girls were murdered in Famagusta by EOKA gunmen. They were shot from behind while taking a stroll. On the same night the Greek radio reported that the EOKA braves dealt another blow to the colonialists. The next night, when they realised their mistake, they blamed the killings on the Turkish Cypriots who were disquised as EOKA gunmen in order to discredit the Organisation.
EOKA performed terrorist acts, both against the Brits and mainly against the Greek Cypriots. Most murders of Greek Cypriots that were committed by EOKA took place in the Famagusta area. They were ordered by a certain "Defkalion" who then justified the criminal acts with articles he wrote in an EOKA magazine called "Egertirion Salpisma".
Defkalion still lives amongs us and he has many supporters who no more question his past actions. Some of them even include children or relatives of his victims. |
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Bullika
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 3025
Location: World
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| Bananiot wrote: |
In 1957, two english 18 year old girls were murdered in Famagusta by EOKA gunmen. They were shot from behind while taking a stroll. On the same night the Greek radio reported that the EOKA braves dealt another blow to the colonialists. The next night, when they realised their mistake, they blamed the killings on the Turkish Cypriots who were disquised as EOKA gunmen in order to discredit the Organisation.
EOKA performed terrorist acts, both against the Brits and mainly against the Greek Cypriots. Most murders of Greek Cypriots that were committed by EOKA took place in the Famagusta area. They were ordered by a certain "Defkalion" who then justified the criminal acts with articles he wrote in an EOKA magazine called "Egertirion Salpisma".
Defkalion still lives amongs us and he has many supporters who no more question his past actions. Some of them even include children or relatives of his victims. |
I had no idea about this, very interesting. Does this guy still live in Cyprus? has nobody tried to bring him to court? |
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Bullika
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 3025
Location: World
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| Dhavlos wrote: |
It is my personal view that enosis, taksim, etc were all just ideas of the elite. The average person just did not care....they had more important things to worry about(like what they were going to eat that day..where there next bit of food or money was going to come from). Im not saying that people did not support enosis, but just that im sure they were largely indifferent. If the main political will was for independance, people would have supported that with jsut as much enthusiasm imo.
plus the fact the 'referendum' took place in churches is another reason why the results should definately be questioned. Also, since the 'leader' of the Greek Cypriots (makarios) was the head of the church(and supported enosis at that time!). |
Exactly, he was the head of the church at the time, it would have been such a pleasant coincidence that 90% voted for enosis, i mean thats so high that its almost implausible. its a bit like saddam hussein who claimed 100% of the population voted for him. |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Bullika wrote: |
| I had no idea about this, very interesting. Does this guy still live in Cyprus? has nobody tried to bring him to court? |
You really should read the forum more instead of having a life 
Anyway here is a link for you (the original site seems down atm so its the google cache of the page)
http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:DzXYV4TGXdQJ:www.eubusiness.com/East_Europe/050804102857.3997a1j3/talkback/1123662094+Defkalion+cyprus&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9
| Quote: |
Papadopoulos has been accused of being "Defkalion" ie the person who gave the green light for the execution of AKEL members and sympathisers during the EOKA period in Mesaoria and Karpas area. Eleven people fell to the bullets of EOKA from January to August in 1958. Defkalion, writing in "Egertirion Salpisma" said that the "executed got what was coming to them for the silver they collected for their treachery". He also wrote many things which if you read them will make your stomach turn inside out. Copies of the magazine "Egertrion Salpisma" can be found at the PIO and also at the offices of the "Association of EOKA Fighters".
AKEL has been calling for decades for light to be shed on the circumstances under which the crimes were committed. Recently, the issue was again on the agenda. Papadopoulos, initially seemed to be susceptive to the new call. Then he came up with this gem:
"I call upon the individual conscience of each EOKA area leader or executioner to restore the memory of any person that was wrongly accused and executed for treason. The people that know the facts have a duty to restore reality so that those which are wrongly accused will no longer live with the stigma of the traitor".
The area leaders of EOKA have on many occasions refused to do what Papadopoulos asked them to do. Papadopoulos knows this. He also knows that they refused to badge an inch even when their own are concerned, like Stephanides, the son of a priest and an EOKA fighter, who was also executed by EOKA for alleged treason. Yet, he makes a proposition that he knows that it has zero chance of being accepted. In this way he washes he hands and says to the unsuspecting ordinary AKEL members that, look, I want but they do not want. |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Dhavlos wrote: |
It is my personal view that enosis, taksim, etc were all just ideas of the elite. The average person just did not care....they had more important things to worry about(like what they were going to eat that day..where there next bit of food or money was going to come from). Im not saying that people did not support enosis, but just that im sure they were largely indifferent. If the main political will was for independance, people would have supported that with jsut as much enthusiasm imo.
plus the fact the 'referendum' took place in churches is another reason why the results should definately be questioned. Also, since the 'leader' of the Greek Cypriots (makarios) was the head of the church(and supported enosis at that time!). |
I tend to agree with you here Dhavlos. I think the real desire amongst ordinary Cypriots (both Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot alike) was essentially for independence and not ENOSIS.
Not only did the 'referendum' take place in churches it took place in churches in open view so all could see what people had signed - during a period when there was a climate of fear.
For me a telling insight into the Greek Cypriot elite's understanding of the true commitment of 'ordianry Greek Cypriot' to ENOSIS is found in the Akritas plan. In the part where the authors of that plan talk about how 'wise' it was not to have had a popular referendum on the 60's agreements - agreements that granted independence and specifically prohibited ENOSIS - for such a referendum would have undoubtedly resulted in the cypriot people giving their support in overwhelming numbers.
The actual section is as follows
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| It is significant argument that the solution achieved has not been ratified by the people, because our leadership, acting wisely, avoided calling the people to ratify it by a plebiscite, which the people, in the 1959 spirit, would have done if called upon. |
Now this can of course be interpreted in different ways - but to me it clearly shows that the 'elites' that were the authors of this plan were more than aware that for average cypriots independence was their true desire for they would have voted in favor of a plan that granted independence and prohibited enosis if given the opportunity to do so in 1959. 'Wisely' though they (the people) were not given this opportunity and thus the elites were able to and did say - actually the 'people' never supported this plan - they wanted ENOSIS. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Papadopoulos during the Eoka struggle (1955-58 ) was between 19-23 years old, and was assigned duties in the propaganda warfare, i.e. writing, publishing and distributing propaganda material such as the above magazine. Within this scope of duties, he may have written articles justifying or explaining murders of people by Eoka, upon instructions from higher ranks. I find it impossible and unbelievable that a 20 or a 22 year old man was given the power and the authority by the Eoka hierarchy and Grivas to decide alone and order such executions. Anyone that claims such a hilarious and preposterous thing does so only deliberately, in order to undermine the current president of the Republic and the Greek Cypriot cause in general! |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 910
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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Erolz,
Well, yes there were a number of killings towards Cypriots for opposing the acts of Eoka. However during liberation struggles and wars there is fanatisism and 'the most innocent man can do the most horrific crime'. Eoka as an organisation did not have civilian targets. The fact that civilians were killed, was either by accident or by individual fighters or maybe even leaders acting on their own behalf of 'immorality'. These individual crimes cannot justify Eoka as a evil and immoral organisation."
The scope of Eoka was beyond the killings and the purpose was the liberation of Cyprus, hense Liberation struggle. No-one can blame the organisation for demanding Enosis as Cypriots lived a different reality than today. The reality of the people at the time was that Cyprus was not a sovereign country but just another Greek island. In fact in the early 20th century many Greek islands were fighting for Enosis with Greece, just like Cyprus. There were other attempts and demonstration striving towards enosis prior Eoka eg. October 1933. It is naive to support that Makarios started the whole idea of Enosis.
Sorry Erolz, your opinion respectful but I totally dissagree with your view of Eoka. I believe there are more important things we need to 'apologise for' acknoledge. Eoka B is a different story! |
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Bananiot
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 1214
Location: Nicosia
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Kifeas
| Quote: |
| Papadopoulos during the Eoka struggle (1955-58 ) was between 19-23 years old, and was assigned duties in the propaganda warfare, i.e. writing, publishing and distributing propaganda material such as the above magazine. Within this scope of duties, he may have written articles justifying or explaining murders of people by Eoka, upon instructions from higher ranks. I find it impossible and unbelievable that a 20 or a 22 year old man was given the power and the authority by the Eoka hierarchy and Grivas to decide alone and order such executions. Anyone that claims such a hilarious and preposterous thing does so only deliberately, in order to undermine the current president of the Republic and the Greek Cypriot cause in general! |
How old was Afxentiou, number 2 in EOKA, at the time? How old were the executionists in EOKA? They all were in their 20's and besides, Papadopoulos has boasted for his role himself and only the other day, his son Nikolas, did the same thing too. The Greek Cypriot cause has been placed in the hands of Defkalion and this is the greatest calamity that has befallen upon Cyprus. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Bananiot wrote: |
Kifeas
| Quote: |
| Papadopoulos during the Eoka struggle (1955-58 ) was between 19-23 years old, and was assigned duties in the propaganda warfare, i.e. writing, publishing and distributing propaganda material such as the above magazine. Within this scope of duties, he may have written articles justifying or explaining murders of people by Eoka, upon instructions from higher ranks. I find it impossible and unbelievable that a 20 or a 22 year old man was given the power and the authority by the Eoka hierarchy and Grivas to decide alone and order such executions. Anyone that claims such a hilarious and preposterous thing does so only deliberately, in order to undermine the current president of the Republic and the Greek Cypriot cause in general! |
How old was Afxentiou, number 2 in EOKA, at the time? How old were the executionists in EOKA? They all were in their 20's and besides, Papadopoulos has boasted for his role himself and only the other day, his son Nikolas, did the same thing too. The Greek Cypriot cause has been placed in the hands of Defkalion and this is the greatest calamity that has befallen upon Cyprus. |
Afxentiou was 28 years old at the time, and he was chosen by Grivas to be 2nd in command of EOKA because of his training in a military academy in Greece and the fact that he served as a second lieutenant in the Greek army, before coming back to Cyprus. Papadopoullos had just finished university in the UK, and at the age of 21 he joined Eoka in the propaganda press.
Which of his role did Papadopoulos boast about? He said he was a member of Eoka and took part in the struggle. What part and what role he played he has never said, set aside that he was deciding and ordering executions, as you have claimed. Bananiot, you know very well that this is not the case. You know very well that others were deciding on those murders, and you even know who they were. You know very well that Papadopoulos (under "defkalion") was called upon trying to explain and justify those killings, as part of the propaganda warfare of Eoka. You know very well that in most case he had no clue of who were the people that were murdered, and obviously no clue of the real reasons. You know very well that those executions were ordered by Grivas and in some cases by the regional (area) commanders of Eoka, and in no way such a role would have been subscripted to Papadopoulos, who wasn’t even in the fighting (armed) sections of Eoka.
I find it very pathetic that in your political opposition madness against Papadopoulos positions, instead of trying to confront his political positions with counter arguments, you try to hit below the belt by insinuating his association with crimes you know he did not have any direct involvement, be it in the 50's -during Eoka campaign, or in 1963 /64. This shows the weakness of your views and arguments in relation to the issues currently at stake. |
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