| Author |
Message |
detailer
Senior Villager
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 473
Location: UK
|
|
Antonis,
Your points can actually be summarised as "If you don't trust us, we dont' trust you" or "if you have your phscological barriers, we have ours too". But you miss a point; we are the minority as a population and our chance of being at a risk after a solution and withdrawal of turkish troops is higher than yours. So our trust issues are more important than yours I think. |
|
| Back to top |
|
antonis
Villager
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 70
|
|
| Viewpoint wrote: |
| ... you appear to be trying to convince yourself more than Turkish Cypriots why you rejected the Annan plan... |
Coin flip. I am trying to convince you why a good percentage of Greek Cypriots have rejected the Annan plan.
| Quote: |
| I truly believe that the Annan plan was a doorway to get us back together working for the same side. |
I believe that the Annan plan could have been one, but apparently it wasn't cause the majority of Greek Cypriots doesn't think so. The fragility of the plan makes it vulnerable and uncertain.
| Quote: |
| that would have aided us to see more clearly and many issues could have been revised and adjusted to suit both communities... |
Nothing is more permanent than a temporary adjustment. I hope you don't see the Annan plan as a step towards making future changes. We need a comprehensive solution within which both communities feel the glass is half full, not half empty.
| Quote: |
| The Greek Cypriots didn't have to say YES to the Annan plan they were comfortable knowing there were going into the EU which meant they could use this leverage to extract exactly what they demand. |
If the Greek Cypriots didn't want a solution, they wouldn't have started negotiations after signing the accession treaty. If Turkish Cypriots want a solution and not partition, they should start negotiations now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8920
Location: London/Cyprus
|
|
| Quote: |
| If the Greek Cypriots didn't want a solution, they wouldn't have started negotiations after signing the accession treaty. If Turkish Cypriots want a solution and not partition, they should start negotiations now. |
I think you are a little misinformed here, Talat is waiting with the hand of peace for Tassos aka Mr oxi to take it so negotiations can begin. |
|
| Back to top |
|
antonis
Villager
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 70
|
|
| detailer wrote: |
| ... we are the minority as a population and our chance of being at a risk after a solution and withdrawal of turkish troops is higher than yours. |
I think you spend more time thinking of the past rather than the future. I don't want any foreign troops in my country, and I don't want any guardian "angels" either.
You seem not to understand what 1974 means for Greek Cypriot refugees and how _every_ Greek Cypriot looks at the Turkish army. Turkey _invaded_ Cyprus in 1974 neither to protect the Turkish Cypriot community on the island, nor to restore the constitutional mess. Turkey forced people out of their properties, cleared out an area, brought settlers from Turkey, in order to divide and occupy Cyprus. The withdrawal of the occupying army is, for Greek Cypriots, an important ingredient for the reunification of the island. |
|
| Back to top |
|
antonis
Villager
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 70
|
|
| Quote: |
| I think you are a little misinformed here, Talat is waiting with the hand of peace for Tassos aka Mr oxi to take it so negotiations can begin. |
Both the UN and Talat know what Tassos wants changed in the Annan plan, especially after Kieran Prendergast's visit to the island. Without negotiations there is no hope for a solution.
If Clerides didn't want to negotiate either, there wouldn't have been any Annan plan, right? Claiming that he's waiting with the hand of peace is one thing, proving it is another. |
|
| Back to top |
|
brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8920
Location: London/Cyprus
|
|
| Quote: |
| Claiming that he's waiting with the hand of peace is one thing, proving it is another. |
You want proof then call his bluff and take the hand, the Turkish Cypriot are sitting more comfortably after the referandum but tassos was called a back stabber by all EU members, the Turkish Cypriot DO want unification but that needs tassos to agree to negotiations and whatever he may have asked for (not in writing but verbally which is worth nothing hence the UN's SG demands for him to put it in writing) will be negotiated at the meetings, but Tassos has to agree first to meetings with Talat who is the democratically elected leader of the Turkish Cypriot people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
detailer
Senior Villager
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 473
Location: UK
|
|
| antonis wrote: |
| detailer wrote: |
| ... we are the minority as a population and our chance of being at a risk after a solution and withdrawal of turkish troops is higher than yours. |
I think you spend more time thinking of the past rather than the future. I don't want any foreign troops in my country, and I don't want any guardian "angels" either.
You seem not to understand what 1974 means for Greek Cypriot refugees and how _every_ Greek Cypriot looks at the Turkish army. Turkey _invaded_ Cyprus in 1974 neither to protect the Turkish Cypriot community on the island, nor to restore the constitutional mess. Turkey forced people out of their properties, cleared out an area, brought settlers from Turkey, in order to divide and occupy Cyprus. The withdrawal of the occupying army is, for Greek Cypriots, an important ingredient for the reunification of the island. |
You misunderstood what I said. I am not exactly talking about the withdrawal or staying of turkish troops. I am talking about the philosophy of your posts. In every single point, you have brought the discussion to "If you have your fears ,we have ours too".
The past is not over, one of the artitechts of nightmare plans for Turkish Cypriot is still your widely supported president. There is a fact my friend: We are a minority as a poulation in this island, and we need a kind of safeguard to protect us. Europe has faced two very big tradegies in its center in the last decade, they didnt move until USA came. I personally don't trust safeguards by EU unless they are somehow supported by Turkey.
I can also ask you another question:
if the past is over and we can trust Greek Cypriot, you may also trust Turkey to be as fair guardian in Cyprus. Why not? |
|
| Back to top |
|
detailer
Senior Villager
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 473
Location: UK
|
|
| Quote: |
| I am trying to convince you why a good percentage of Greek Cypriots have rejected the Annan plan. |
When it comes to the rejection of Annan plan by Greek Cypriot, the reasons seem more physclogical to me rather than solid.
First of all, the political organisations who were publicly supporting the Annan were attacked as "traitors, betrayers". Wasn't this the case? Cannedmoose who is english but married to Greek Cypriot said this many times. I believe his commens as he tries to be objective. Verheugen was not given a chance to speak in Greek Cypriot televisions. Is this wrong? Then "No" is not very suprising.
There was a very interesing research in Kibris newspaper showing that younger Turkish Cypriot have more trust/or sympathy in Greek Cypriot than the older generation. This was shown as exactly the opposite for Greek Cypriot. I think this gives an opinion to me how the military and education system work in south. I peronally experienced this; I find young Greek Cypriot generally suspicious/ignorant about Turkish Cypriot. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
|
|
| detailer wrote: |
There was a very interesing research in Kibris newspaper showing that younger Turkish Cypriot have more trust/or sympathy in Greek Cypriot than the older generation. This was shown as exactly the opposite for Greek Cypriot. I think this gives an opinion to me how the military and education system work in south. I peronally experienced this; I find young Greek Cypriot generally suspicious/ignorant about Turkish Cypriot. |
im sorry to hear about your experiances with some Greek Cypriots but i dont think you can generalise about all Greek Cypriots, i think the problem of 'trust/ignorance' is more pronounced in the actual Republic of Cyprus, rather than here in the UK, or any other places where Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots live together.
However, i do sort of agree with you that the army and education have a lot to answer for. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
|
|
I think that an easy solution to the education 'problem' would be for the north and the south to impliment a joint curriculum, as this i dont think would really be a 'bad' thing, or something as compliated as a solution to agree on.
Stuff like history may be hard to sort out, but then, teachers from both sides could help each other, and let both sides know eahc others experiances or something.
REally, it would go a long way in promoting bicommunal efforts, also schools from both sides of the green line could have special partnerships with each other and do some events together, like award presentations/sports days etc.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
|
|
| Dhavlos wrote: |
I think that an easy solution to the education 'problem' would be for the north and the south to impliment a joint curriculum, as this i dont think would really be a 'bad' thing, or something as compliated as a solution to agree on.
Stuff like history may be hard to sort out, but then, teachers from both sides could help each other, and let both sides know eahc others experiances or something.
REally, it would go a long way in promoting bicommunal efforts, also schools from both sides of the green line could have special partnerships with each other and do some events together, like award presentations/sports days etc.... |
Not an easy thing to accomplish but an excellent idea Dhavlos, in my humble opinion. I really like the idea of 'teacher exchanges' where Turkish Cypriot teachers would swap places with Greek Cypriot teachers for a period of time. Now something like this would be _really_ progressive imo.
Could we make this happen? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
|
|
| maybe we could start a petition and write to the relevent education departments on both sides? Maybe to the EU/Un as well(funding?)....im sure they'd want their name on such an initiateive |
|
| Back to top |
|
erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
|
|
| Dhavlos wrote: |
| maybe we could start a petition and write to the relevent education departments on both sides? Maybe to the EU/Un as well(funding?)....im sure they'd want their name on such an initiateive |
Yeah a petition is a possible way of pushing this specific agenda.
I would just add that this 'let's get the UN/EU' involved part leaves me cold. We should just do these things as Cypriots. We do not need help from the UN to do these things. We just need a will to do them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
|
|
| Un/EU stuff was just an idea, for funding and the like |
|
| Back to top |
|
cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
Moderator
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5357
Location: National Forest, England
|
|
| I've had this discussion with MicAtCyp before, if he's about it would be interesting for him to get involved in this, he's got some interesting perspective on the mindset of Greek Cypriot youth and where their mode of thinking stems from. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Register 
Log in 
Album 
Home 
