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De_La_Soul
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
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Somebody countering somebody else's allegations, be it the truth or not..that is free speech. If a government spokesman says Tony A was wrong to make such a film, that is the government spokesman's right to do so. That is still free speech. If that minister incites violance against Tony A, then that is crossing the line.
Again, can you be specific about the threats made by government peoples against Tony A? Were they really threats or is this all propaganda once more on the Turkish media behalf who has used Tony A's work as propaganda of their own.
The difference between Turkey and Cyprus is that people in Turkey would likely be arrested or murdered by the state if they made the kinda of film Tony A made. In Cyprus, people may be unhappy with it...but they are not as corrupt as Turkey and do not have the same terrible human rights record as Turkey.
You cannot be so blind and nationalistic as to try and convince me or other people that Turkey and Cyprus have the same human rights abuse records. GET REAL!!
That link didnt work by the way. |
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Cyprus rules!
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 668
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Hey, I thought this was an 'Entertainment and Sport' section of the forum...for a moment there I thought I'd stumbled on to the wrong section.....  |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| De_La_Soul wrote: |
You cannot be so blind and nationalistic as to try and convince me or other people that Turkey and Cyprus have the same human rights abuse records. GET REAL!!
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Ok, dude. Cyprus has better human rights than Turkey but doesn't it bother you one bit that no single TV channel in the south had the courage to show Tony's documentary? You talk about free speech but you fail to see how hard it is on both sides of the green line to say something against the official position. It kills me to see that you don't accept any blame for your side while bashing the evil Turks all the time. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Mete wrote: |
| De_La_Soul wrote: |
You cannot be so blind and nationalistic as to try and convince me or other people that Turkey and Cyprus have the same human rights abuse records. GET REAL!!
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Ok, dude. Cyprus has better human rights than Turkey but doesn't it bother you one bit that no single TV channel in the south had the courage to show Tony's documentary? You talk about free speech but you fail to see how hard it is on both sides of the green line to say something against the official position. It kills me to see that you don't accept any blame for your side while bashing the evil Turks all the time. |
Mete, things are not as simple!
We are still a country under occupation, and for this to be brought to an end one day we need to contact an on going for 32 years daily diplomatic, political, legal, social and even defense upgrading struggle, which (struggle) is a very far stretching and exhausting one due to the small size of our country and the large size and means that Turkey has in its possession.
Now, from the moment that the Turkish and Turkish Cypriot side are not willing to admit its own crimes, and not just that but for 32 years they essentially refused to even investigate the fait of the missing ones, and in view of the above exhausting socio-political climate within the Greek Cypriot community that I described, in which the unity and the moral of the people in the society is a very crucial one for the successful outcome of the already 32 year long struggle to achieve a fair and viable solution, do not expect us to unilaterally start digging the past and start bringing people to courts and thus disorient, destabilize and demoralize the society; at the time that the other side is not willing to reciprocate and do likewise!
Your side and Turkey are using those murders in order to justify their political agendas for partition, and based on them to build the foundations for the legitimization and legalization of the fait accomplices of 1974 and afterwards, while at the same time it denies its own equivalent crimes and tries to present 1974 as a peace operation. Under these circumstances, do not expect us to so easily do things that may give them the ammunition they need for this purpose.
What a better evidence do I need that proves what I mean or say, other than the fact that Tonny Angastinioti’s documentary -since it was made- is been mostly and primarily used by the propaganda machinery of the Turkish side (ATCA, etc,) against the Greek Cypriot side, and they even show it to foreigners -perspective Greek Cypriot property “buyers” in the north- in order to alleviate their inhibitions and convince them that what they are doing is not morally wrong. Now, where is the equivalent documentary to that of Tonny Angastiniotis that any Turkish Cypriot has ever made for the equivalent crimes against Greek Cypriots, and which balances out the effects of the former? Before you accuse the Greek Cypriot side for not allowing the viewing of the this documentary in the south, make your own documentary and show it to the Turkish Cypriots in the north via TV, and then accuse us for not being sincere and democratic!
I said it many times. Tonny Angastiniotis made a mistake. He should have first made the documentary together with a Turkish Cypriot producer, and they should have together –in the same documentary- presented the pain of both communities and the crimes of both sides (including those of Turkey) in a counterbalancing way, so that such a documentary would not been able to be used by the propaganda of any of the sides against the other, and wouldn’t have a problem been shown in the south, since the reaction of the Greek Cypriot refugees and relatives of missing and murdered would have been eliminated due to the fact that their own pain and suffering would also be included.
The way T. Angastiniotis made this documentary, determined also its eventual fait, treatment and conclusion; i.e. complete rejection and denial in the south by the Greek Cypriot side, and full exploitation and manipulation by the Turkish propaganda machinery in the north and abroad against the Greek Cypriot side. |
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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8920
Location: London/Cyprus
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Kifeas wrote
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I said it many times. Tonny Angastiniotis made a mistake. He should have first made the documentary together with a Turkish Cypriot producer, and they should have together –in the same documentary- presented the pain of both communities and the crimes of both sides (including those of Turkey) in a counterbalancing way, so that such a documentary would not been able to be used by the propaganda of any of the sides against the other, and wouldn’t have a problem been shown in the south, since the reaction of the Greek Cypriot refugees and relatives of missing and murdered would have been eliminated due to the fact that their own pain and suffering would also be included.
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I have to say that imo that would have been the better way forward and would have made a huge impact over the entire island and beyond. |
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Cyprus rules!
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 668
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| Look, both sides had extremists that caused hurt and pain to members of the two communities, to present the Cyprus problem in a one sided manner is completely unfair and wrong, a proper documentary should show both sides of the story and allow the viewer to form their own opinion...... |
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De_La_Soul
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
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It kills me to see that you don't accept any blame for your side while bashing the evil Turks all the time.
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Obviously you dont read much of my posts then. Im not going to prove myself again...I cant be arsed. |
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best_of_both
Villager
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 61
Location: cambridge
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| De_La_Soul wrote: |
| Quote: |
It kills me to see that you don't accept any blame for your side while bashing the evil Turks all the time.
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Obviously you dont read much of my posts then. Im not going to prove myself again...I cant be arsed. |
READ THIS
Tony Angastiniotis talks exclusively to Toplum Postasi
Angastiniotis: “Selective memory is necessary to maintain current policies, but does not lead to reconciliation.”
Exclusive Interview by Alkan Chaglar
This week well-known Cypriot documentary maker Tony Angastiniotis talks to Toplum Postasi’s Alkan Chaglar about why he directed “the voice of blood.” He talks about the power of forgiveness and how selective memory, which is used by Cypriot politicians from both sides of the divide to maintain current government policies are failing to lead to reconciliation and reunification. Tony calls for greater support for NGO’s working for peace in Cyprus and a greater exchange ideas from academics.
Q. What were your reasons for making the documentary 'the voice of blood'?
A. Truth, acknowledgment, reconciliation, and a lasting peace. I wanted to tell the Turkish Cypriots that I as a Greek Cypriot acknowledge that you have suffered because of my ethnic group and I am apologizing for it. I also wanted to show to my own ethnic group that we are not only victims in this conflict but the victimiser also. We have killed innocent civilians and when we hesitate in prosecuting the killers and try to cover-up the crimes they committed, we are as guilty as they are. Showing the other side of the coin was also part of my objective because I knew the Greek Media will accuse me for not showing both sides of the story, and that’s what they did. That gave me the opportunity to ask them to show me one of their hundreds of documentaries about the war that mentions any suffering of the Turkish Cypriots. From then on they went silent and my question went unanswered. This doesn’t mean that the other side is not guilty for the same reason, but I am responsible to challenge my side as much as the journalists on the other side have the responsibility to challenge there own policies.
Q. Would you say there is a selective memory syndrome affecting both Cypriot communities? And how important is it for us as Cypriots to address our past mistakes? And how will this pave the way for better understanding and forgiveness?
A. The leaders of the two communities have been in open conflict for half a century. And I say leaders because they are the ones responsible for laying the seeds of hatred in the people and then arming them to kill each other. Undoubtedly outside forces were in on it as well but they needed inside collaboration and they had it. As in every conflict propaganda is the most powerful weapon, and Cyprus was no exception. If you go back through the newspaper archives you will see how every side has an opposite explanation to every story. Strange as it may sound, today’s policies are being built on those past foundations, so if the past collapses the whole building collapses. In other words, selective memory is necessary to maintain current policies, sadly the problem is that this attitude does not lead to reconciliation.
If we don’t address the past mistakes, which are not only mistakes but crimes, how can we heal the wounds? I speak with people from both communities that still today cry and feel bitter when they remember their suffering. The “other” killed his father, mother, child, and now we are asking him to forgive and coexist but without the other ever apologizing to him. We want peace without acknowledgment, is it possible? Unfortunately journalists also suffer from selective memory syndrome. At a bi-communal program about the freedom of the press on CYBC last week when the Greek Cypriot journalist said, there is no freedom of speech in the North, the Turkish Cypriot journalists challenged them reminding them how I was banned from the Media in the South. To my amazement the Greek journalists said they don’t know anything about me though CYBC was the only channel that admitted in the past that they have received my documentary. This is selective loss of memory… (Tony begins to laugh)
Q. Are the current leaderships of both Cypriot communities addressing past errors or are they ignoring these? What should they aim to do as responsible governments?
A. Unfortunately the leaders are still playing the “Who through the first stone” game. This is not a constructive way to look at the past. Nobody will ever admit that he is responsible for starting the conflict, but what is obvious is that on both sides atrocities have been committed. Both sides have missing people and everybody knows what happened to them. They where executed.
If the leaders really wanted to open the way for reconciliation they would have shown an example by apologising for the crimes there community is responsible for. But this needs humility and that’s not a virtue in politics. If this happened on a leadership level I believe the aggressive environment that’s hanging over our sky for decades could change overnight. But this is treason in the mind of our nationalistic thinking, that why I am considered ‘a traitor’ by my community and not a hero.
The leaderships on both sides must realize that the NGOs working for truth and reconciliation are not a threat to their policy, and they must assist them rather than misnaming them as traitors. What good will any political agreements do if the hearts of the people have not been transformed. The same Makarios that sign the 1960 agreements was the same Makarios that 3 years canceled them. The worst agreement can work if the people on both communities will but their hearts to it, and the best agreement can fail if the people have no heart for it.
Q. Do you have optimism for the future reunification of Cyprus? And what needs to be done before to ensure there is a sustainable peace?
A. There is a saying in Cyprus, “hope is the last to die”. For me its not a matter of optimism or pessimism, I am standing for what I believe if not for any other reason to be a witness. I want my children to know I don’t give up trying even when all odds where against me. I want the future generations of Cypriots to be able to use my work for peace building if this generation fails.
To be honest, though the leaders on both sides talk about reunification, at times their conduct makes me seriously doubt that they are really working towards it. One part is hiding behind the Yes vote, while the other hides behind the EU. Greeks celebrated the entrance into the EU as though it was a solution to the political problem, CTP had a celebration last week for the Yes anniversary. It’s not victory if one side said yes and the other no. It’s not a victory if the one side is in Europe while the other is under international embargo. Victory is when a sustainable peace has come through a mutual agreement.
This brings me to the second part of your question. I can think of many things that can be done that could reduce tension and could become cornerstones’ on the peace bridge. They (the leaders) could start by making a “No War Agreement” where both sides will commit that war will never be an option. If this is agreed then a large amount of Turkish army can withdraw from the North and armament in the South reduced. Bi-communal schools can be created in residential areas along the Green Line. Both languages can be taught in all the schools. Stop all building on Greek land until a solution is found. Reconstruct all destroyed graveyards Churches and Mosques on both sides. Open all mass graves and return the bones to the relatives with a statement of apology to each family that has suffered. Return the close city of Famagusta and open the port for both communities. Develop trade between the communities in a balanced way that the one will not feel threaten by the other. And the list can go on and on.
Q. I understand you have accepted a job at EMU in Famagusta. How would you describe your relations with Turkish Cypriots?
A. Many journalists have tried to use my presence at EMU as propaganda, for me it was a matter of survival, a source of food for my family, not a political statement. Education should be free from politics and I believe it will be beneficial for the peace process if students and teachers from both sides start to mix more. I must say that I am thankful to the rector and the board of the university that opened this door for me, and I observed that not even once tried to use my presence there for propaganda. I regard the Turkish Cypriots as my own people because they are, and I think they have naturally accepted me in the community. Even those who may disagree with my views or my work they will always talked to me kindly and with respect. The miracle of hospitality is still in motion here. The only barrier is language, but those that don’t speak Greek usually speak English and I am trying to learn Turkish, but I admit it’s not an easy language. When I see all this kindness in them I wonder how on earth all this conflict began on this island of ours. Politics I assume.
Q. What message do you have for Turkish Cypriots who are skeptical about reunification?
A. I understand their skepticism and in many ways I can justify it. Nevertheless, they must understand that like me there are thousands of Greeks Cypriots that believe the same way and have acknowledged that Greeks are not the only victims. Don’t believe everything the media is presenting to you, I work with Media and I know how facts can be twisted around to serve political powers rather than the truth. A Turkish Cypriot that lost his wife and children in Muratađa had reason to hate the Greeks, but after he saw my work he admitted to me that the Turks have committed crimes also, and he apologised to me. This is the power of forgiveness. He responded to my apology with an apology. Cypriots are good-hearted people but were victimised by wrong politics. We cannot bring back the dead, but we can provide a better future for our children. Our children can only follow our example. If we forgive they will learn to forgive too, if we go on hating they will go on hating too. What will it be? |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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Kifeas, I agree with you in essence. It would be the best if there was a joint documentary showing both Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot sufferrings because I sincerely believe that both sides sufferred a lot due to Cyprus problem.
However, "Cyprus is under occupation and we cannot show a documentary solely about Turkish Cypriot sufferings because of this" is a lame excuse. This shows that majority of Greek Cypriots consider themselves as victims of the Cyprus problem. We both know (or at least I hope) that both sides are victims in different aspects of Cyprus problem.
It's a shame that there hasn't been a documentary about Greek Cypriot sufferings in the north but this in no way should prevent a documentary about Turkish Cypriot sufferrings from airing on the Greek channels if there was some kind of democracy in the south.
I do admit that Turkish Cypriots have a long way to go in terms of democracy but we did have Turkish Cypriot journalists, see Sevgul Uludag, who extensively talked about Greek Cypriot sufferrings in a newspaper.
Anyway, the bottom line is that I hope you realize that the south is not as rosey as you might think in terms of democracy. |
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Cyprus rules!
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 668
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Hey,I believe that some Greek Cypriots oppose the documentary because they feel that it supports the idea that the Greek Cypriot's
wanted to, and still are intending to genocide the Turkish Cypriot community. This is an idea that makes the mistrust between the two communities very high, however these people, as far as I am aware, have never seen the documentary so they are just guessing as to what is the true content, I'm sure they feel that he is promoting the Turkish nationalistic idea that "the Greeks were the "baddies" who attempted to kill all Turkish Cypriots, etc...I must admit that before I read the above interview I also shared this view, to a certain extent, however it appears to me that he just wanted to educate the Greek Cypriot people about the suffering of the Turkish Cypriot community, to make the ideas on the Cyprus problem in 'Southern' Cyprus, more balanced. He recognizes that the Greek Cypriots aren't really being educated about what happened during the inter communal fighting, and subsequently the suffering of the Turkish Cypriots, and actually to a certain extent the suffering of the Greek Cypriots during that period, as people mainly get taught about the invasion, although I believe that one of the reasons for this is that most Greek Cypriots as far as they were concerned, lived quite happily together with their Turkish Cypriot neighbors, when suddenly they got forcefully segregated.......
I commend him for trying to show what happened during the years 1960-74, even if it is only showing the Turkish Cypriot suffering, I mean it must be extremely hard to write what truly happened, not only because it is still fresh in every ones mind, but also because there are so many different opinions and theories, plus there's always going to be the questions, who started the violence? And why did it start in the first place? For example some Turkish Cypriots would argue that the fighting started when EOKA started to kill Turkish Cypriots, where as some Greek Cypriots would respond by saying that EOKA was never set up to kill Turkish Cypriot's but to fight the British, who pitted the two communities against each other when they used only Turkish Cypriots in an auxiliary force that was sent to crush EOKA, thus diluting the call for Ennosis and gaining more control. As well as that there are the Bombs that were blamed on the Greek Cypriot's, but were later discovered to have been planted by the TMT in order to provoke inter-communal fighting, to prove that the communities could not "live" together.
| Quote: |
"When the armed struggle started, the British had at their disposal thousands of men and could even increase their existing numbers to put down the EOKA struggle. This they did not do, but they formed instead the well known Auxiliary
Corps. The ordinary Turkish Cypriots, who did not realize where the British were leading them (since their leadership did not warn them, rather it encouraged them), hastened to reinforce this Auxiliary Corps thinking only of securing
a living. Thus, the Greek Cypriots, who thought that they were waging a holy struggle against the British, found themselves facing the Turkish Cypriots. In this way
the British started submitting to the Turkish community their plans for partition."
Ibrahim Aziz, "The Historical Course of the Turkish Cypriot Community", 1981
"In 1954 I felt great anxiety about Cyprus.
...
Harold Macmillan was urging us to stir up the Turks in order to neutralize the Greek agitation. I wrote a minute in opposition to this tactic. I also asked the Prime Minister's private secretary if I could see Churchill on the subject,
but he absolutely refused even to pass on the suggestion, which he clearly regarded as impertinence."
C.M. Woodhouse, "Something Ventured", 1982.
Emin Dirvana, then Turkish Ambassador to Cyprus, explains what Denktash means, in an article in "Milliyet" (5.15.64)
"...I was informed that on the 7th of June, 1958, a bomb had been planted in the Turkish Press Office in Nicosia by persons who, as was established later, had nothing to do with the Greek Cypriots. The Turks of Nicosia were then incited (...) and perpetrated acts similar to those committed on the 6th and the 7th of September, 1955 in Istanbul."
In an interview given by Denktash to the British television channel ITV for the program "Cyprus: Britain's Grim Legacy", he said:
"There was an explosion at the information bureau of the Turkish Consulate. A crowd had already gathered there, a crowd of the Turkish Cypriot community. And they almost immediately decided that Greeks had done it and they were swearing vengeance against the Greeks and so on." "The explosion started a night of riots in Nicosia. Turkish Cypriots burned and looted Greek shops and homes. Soon came counter-attacks and the fighting spread round the island. Later on, a friend of mine, whose name must still be kept secret, was to confess to me that he had put this little bomb in their doorway in order to create an atmosphere of tension so that people would know that Turkish Cypriots mattered." |
I really think that, if the documentary is truly fair and well researched, than it should be shown in the South of Cyprus, not only to educate the Greek Cypriots and allow both communities to acknowledge each others tragedies and move on, but also to stop the Turkish Nationalists using it as Turkish propaganda against the Greek Cypriots, after all if we embrace it then they can longer say that we deny that Turkish Cypriots suffered throughout those unfortunate years!
Peace! 
Last edited by Cyprus rules! on Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Cyprus rules!
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 668
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Sorry about the length of my post, I think I might have got a bit carried away...... 
And there's me thinking that this was the 'Entertainment and Sport" section of the forum!   |
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best_of_both
Villager
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 61
Location: cambridge
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| Cyprus rules! wrote: |
Hey,I believe that some Greek Cypriots oppose the documentary because they feel that it supports the idea that the Greek Cypriot's
wanted to, and still are intending to genocide the Turkish Cypriot community. This is an idea that makes the mistrust between the two communities very high, however these people, as far as I am aware, have never seen the documentary so they are just guessing as to what is the true content, I'm sure they feel that he is promoting the Turkish nationalistic idea that "the Greeks were the "baddies" who attempted to kill all Turkish Cypriots, etc...I must admit that before I read the above interview I also shared this view, to a certain extent, however it appears to me that he just wanted to educate the Greek Cypriot people about the suffering of the Turkish Cypriot community, to make the ideas on the Cyprus problem in 'Southern' Cyprus, more balanced. He recognizes that the Greek Cypriots aren't really being educated about what happened during the inter communal fighting, and subsequently the suffering of the Turkish Cypriots, and actually to a certain extent the suffering of the Greek Cypriots during that period, as people mainly get taught about the invasion, although I believe that one of the reasons for this is that most Greek Cypriots as far as they were concerned, lived quite happily together with their Turkish Cypriot neighbors, when suddenly they got forcefully segregated.......
I commend him for trying to show what happened during the years 1960-74, even if it is only showing the Turkish Cypriot suffering, I mean it must be extremely hard to write what truly happened, not only because it is still fresh in every ones mind, but also because there are so many different opinions and theories, plus there's always going to be the questions, who started the violence? And why did it start in the first place? For example some Turkish Cypriots would argue that the fighting started when EOKA started to kill Turkish Cypriots, where as some Greek Cypriots would respond by saying that EOKA was never set up to kill Turkish Cypriot's but to fight the British, who pitted the two communities against each other when they used only Turkish Cypriots in an auxiliary force that was sent to crush EOKA, thus diluting the call for Ennosis and gaining more control. As well as that there are the Bombs that were blamed on the Greek Cypriot's, but were later discovered to have been planted by the TMT in order to provoke inter-communal fighting, to prove that the communities could not "live" together.
| Quote: |
"When the armed struggle started, the British had at their disposal thousands of men and could even increase their existing numbers to put down the EOKA struggle. This they did not do, but they formed instead the well known Auxiliary
Corps. The ordinary Turkish Cypriots, who did not realize where the British were leading them (since their leadership did not warn them, rather it encouraged them), hastened to reinforce this Auxiliary Corps thinking only of securing
a living. Thus, the Greek Cypriots, who thought that they were waging a holy struggle against the British, found themselves facing the Turkish Cypriots. In this way
the British started submitting to the Turkish community their plans for partition."
Ibrahim Aziz, "The Historical Course of the Turkish Cypriot Community", 1981
"In 1954 I felt great anxiety about Cyprus.
...
Harold Macmillan was urging us to stir up the Turks in order to neutralize the Greek agitation. I wrote a minute in opposition to this tactic. I also asked the Prime Minister's private secretary if I could see Churchill on the subject,
but he absolutely refused even to pass on the suggestion, which he clearly regarded as impertinence."
C.M. Woodhouse, "Something Ventured", 1982.
Emin Dirvana, then Turkish Ambassador to Cyprus, explains what Denktash means, in an article in "Milliyet" (5.15.64)
"...I was informed that on the 7th of June, 1958, a bomb had been planted in the Turkish Press Office in Nicosia by persons who, as was established later, had nothing to do with the Greek Cypriots. The Turks of Nicosia were then incited (...) and perpetrated acts similar to those committed on the 6th and the 7th of September, 1955 in Istanbul."
In an interview given by Denktash to the British television channel ITV for the program "Cyprus: Britain's Grim Legacy", he said:
"There was an explosion at the information bureau of the Turkish Consulate. A crowd had already gathered there, a crowd of the Turkish Cypriot community. And they almost immediately decided that Greeks had done it and they were swearing vengeance against the Greeks and so on." "The explosion started a night of riots in Nicosia. Turkish Cypriots burned and looted Greek shops and homes. Soon came counter-attacks and the fighting spread round the island. Later on, a friend of mine, whose name must still be kept secret, was to confess to me that he had put this little bomb in their doorway in order to create an atmosphere of tension so that people would know that Turkish Cypriots mattered." |
I really think that, if the documentary is truly fair and well researched, than it should be shown in the South of Cyprus, not only to educate the Greek Cypriots and allow both communities to acknowledge each others tragedies and move on, but also to stop the Turkish Nationalists using it as Turkish propaganda against the Greek Cypriots, after all if we embrace it then they can longer say that we deny that Turkish Cypriots suffered throughout those unfortunate years!
Peace! |
yes it should be shown in the south fo them to acknowledge the turkish cypriots tragedies, but it is NOT ALLOWED to be shown, it has been cencored by the republic of cyprus government. this is an example of a person being punished for going against the prerogative of the country of his nationality, thanks for the quote Del_La_sol as i have read in many of your posts of rubbish claims of the turkish propoganda!!!
if you want to know about propoganda try the churches preaching violence to the children pre 1974, i should know my dad was a greekcypriot child of that time. |
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RudeGal
Senior Villager
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 385
Location: London
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| You boyz and gals obviously not up to date. VIVA Cup is out due to fall out between Turkish Cypriot FA and NF (non-FIFA) Board. So Turkish Cypriots going solo with own tournament for the ELF (Equality Liberty Fraternity) Cup. Same time (Nov) and teams I think. |
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Cyprus rules!
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 668
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| best_of_both wrote: |
| Cyprus rules! wrote: |
Hey,I believe that some Greek Cypriots oppose the documentary because they feel that it supports the idea that the Greek Cypriot's
wanted to, and still are intending to genocide the Turkish Cypriot community. This is an idea that makes the mistrust between the two communities very high, however these people, as far as I am aware, have never seen the documentary so they are just guessing as to what is the true content, I'm sure they feel that he is promoting the Turkish nationalistic idea that "the Greeks were the "baddies" who attempted to kill all Turkish Cypriots, etc...I must admit that before I read the above interview I also shared this view, to a certain extent, however it appears to me that he just wanted to educate the Greek Cypriot people about the suffering of the Turkish Cypriot community, to make the ideas on the Cyprus problem in 'Southern' Cyprus, more balanced. He recognizes that the Greek Cypriots aren't really being educated about what happened during the inter communal fighting, and subsequently the suffering of the Turkish Cypriots, and actually to a certain extent the suffering of the Greek Cypriots during that period, as people mainly get taught about the invasion, although I believe that one of the reasons for this is that most Greek Cypriots as far as they were concerned, lived quite happily together with their Turkish Cypriot neighbors, when suddenly they got forcefully segregated.......
I commend him for trying to show what happened during the years 1960-74, even if it is only showing the Turkish Cypriot suffering, I mean it must be extremely hard to write what truly happened, not only because it is still fresh in every ones mind, but also because there are so many different opinions and theories, plus there's always going to be the questions, who started the violence? And why did it start in the first place? For example some Turkish Cypriots would argue that the fighting started when EOKA started to kill Turkish Cypriots, where as some Greek Cypriots would respond by saying that EOKA was never set up to kill Turkish Cypriot's but to fight the British, who pitted the two communities against each other when they used only Turkish Cypriots in an auxiliary force that was sent to crush EOKA, thus diluting the call for Ennosis and gaining more control. As well as that there are the Bombs that were blamed on the Greek Cypriot's, but were later discovered to have been planted by the TMT in order to provoke inter-communal fighting, to prove that the communities could not "live" together.
| Quote: |
"When the armed struggle started, the British had at their disposal thousands of men and could even increase their existing numbers to put down the EOKA struggle. This they did not do, but they formed instead the well known Auxiliary
Corps. The ordinary Turkish Cypriots, who did not realize where the British were leading them (since their leadership did not warn them, rather it encouraged them), hastened to reinforce this Auxiliary Corps thinking only of securing
a living. Thus, the Greek Cypriots, who thought that they were waging a holy struggle against the British, found themselves facing the Turkish Cypriots. In this way
the British started submitting to the Turkish community their plans for partition."
Ibrahim Aziz, "The Historical Course of the Turkish Cypriot Community", 1981
"In 1954 I felt great anxiety about Cyprus.
...
Harold Macmillan was urging us to stir up the Turks in order to neutralize the Greek agitation. I wrote a minute in opposition to this tactic. I also asked the Prime Minister's private secretary if I could see Churchill on the subject,
but he absolutely refused even to pass on the suggestion, which he clearly regarded as impertinence."
C.M. Woodhouse, "Something Ventured", 1982.
Emin Dirvana, then Turkish Ambassador to Cyprus, explains what Denktash means, in an article in "Milliyet" (5.15.64)
"...I was informed that on the 7th of June, 1958, a bomb had been planted in the Turkish Press Office in Nicosia by persons who, as was established later, had nothing to do with the Greek Cypriots. The Turks of Nicosia were then incited (...) and perpetrated acts similar to those committed on the 6th and the 7th of September, 1955 in Istanbul."
In an interview given by Denktash to the British television channel ITV for the program "Cyprus: Britain's Grim Legacy", he said:
"There was an explosion at the information bureau of the Turkish Consulate. A crowd had already gathered there, a crowd of the Turkish Cypriot community. And they almost immediately decided that Greeks had done it and they were swearing vengeance against the Greeks and so on." "The explosion started a night of riots in Nicosia. Turkish Cypriots burned and looted Greek shops and homes. Soon came counter-attacks and the fighting spread round the island. Later on, a friend of mine, whose name must still be kept secret, was to confess to me that he had put this little bomb in their doorway in order to create an atmosphere of tension so that people would know that Turkish Cypriots mattered." |
I really think that, if the documentary is truly fair and well researched, than it should be shown in the South of Cyprus, not only to educate the Greek Cypriots and allow both communities to acknowledge each others tragedies and move on, but also to stop the Turkish Nationalists using it as Turkish propaganda against the Greek Cypriots, after all if we embrace it then they can longer say that we deny that Turkish Cypriots suffered throughout those unfortunate years!
Peace! |
yes it should be shown in the south fo them to acknowledge the turkish cypriots tragedies, but it is NOT ALLOWED to be shown, it has been cencored by the republic of cyprus government. this is an example of a person being punished for going against the prerogative of the country of his nationality, thanks for the quote Del_La_sol as i have read in many of your posts of rubbish claims of the turkish propoganda!!!
if you want to know about propoganda try the churches preaching violence to the children pre 1974, i should know my dad was a greekcypriot child of that time. |
Hey Best of both, my father was also a child living in Cyprus during those periods as was my Mother, and they said that they were never told to be violent towards the Turkish Cypriot's from any priest! I'm not disputing what your father experienced, it's just that I'm sure their were fanatical priests in Cyprus during that time, but at the same time I'm sure their were fanatical Turkish Cypriot's advocating violence as well, Just like theirs fanatical people in England and America, etc, preaching the same thing!
Peace! |
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De_La_Soul
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
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this is an example of a person being punished for going against the prerogative of the country of his nationality, thanks for the quote Del_La_sol as i have read in many of your posts of rubbish claims of the turkish propoganda!!!
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Care to elaborate my dunce friend from Cambridge?
and its De La Soul...not 'Del La Sol'...maybe if u didnt skim through my posts you wouldve got the name right. |
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