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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Viewpoint wrote: |
| So that gives me the impression that Greek Cypriot do deep down harbour intentions of becoming the majority in the North State, otherwise placing symbolic upper limits should not cause them any loss of sleep as they never intend to exploit this possiblity. |
The symbolism problem exists only from the part of the G/Cs. It is us who cannot accept it, out of pure symbolic reasons, and not because we aspire to abandon the south and come into the north so that we become the majority. Your true safeguard is the fact that human nature and the years that elapsed, and those that will elapse during the transitional period, will make it impossible for this to happen. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| VP, just out of pure curiosity, what upper-limit permanent restrictions do you have in mind? |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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An agreed percentage of the population of the north I think you mentioned that to attain 29% of the we have to have 30% Greek Cypriot population.
I as Turkish Cypriot today do not have a trusting nature towards Greek Cypriots and question everything they put forward and therefore have to have safeguards in place enabling to stimulate a medium of trust. Who know after a number of years and the building of trust many of these restrictions may be reviewed and even removed but for now I would prefer not to put my safeguard in human nature where changing ideals in the future could potentially put my community at risk.
Last edited by Viewpoint on Thu May 11, 2006 1:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Viewpoint wrote: |
An agreed percentage of the population of the north I think you mentioned that to attain 29% of the we have to have 30% Greek Cypriot population.
I as Turkish Cypriot today do not have a trusting nature towards Greek Cypriots and qyestion evryhting they put forward and therefore have to have safeguards in place. After a number of years and the building of trust many of these restrctions may be reviewed and even removed but for now I would put my safeguard in human nature where changing ideals in the future could potentially put my community at risk. |
No it is 35% of Greek Cypriot population. Do the maths right! |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| I did say I think you said, man you are so uptight today, lack of sleep or something else? |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Viewpoint wrote: |
| I did say I think you said, man you are so uptight today, lack of sleep or something else? |
If we are to accept than for the next 50 years the 35% maximum should be guaranteed, what problem will you have? |
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Birkibrisli
Deputy
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
My problem with Kifeas' vision is that it gives too much concession to our ethnic identities which will serve to cement our differences instead of encouraging us to concentrate on our similarities.
But i do acknowledge that I am in the minority in thinking thus.The majority of Turkish Cypriots are looking for more concrete protections than what common sense would dictate.Instead of speaking for them I will let them speak for themselves,if they so chose,and dissect Kifeas's proposal.
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Brother, I am not emphasising this aspect because this is how I or the rest of the G/Cs do necessarily want this to be the case. I am emphasising this because the T/Cs want this to be the case and /or the basis of our relationship in this country. |
I know,Kifeas. That's why I said I am in a peculiar situation.You are giving me more concessions than I want.But it is the likes of Viewpoint that we must convince.
But let me ask you one thing.And Viewpoint too might want to respond to this: Are you not concerned that when Turkey joins the EU (after a solution in Cyprus presumably) millions of Turks might come and settle in Cyprus,both in the North and the South and reduce the Greek Cypriots to a minority??? |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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A possibility, but highly unlikely...since when turkey joins, like the 2004 enlargemnt, countries can have temporary restrictions on the movement of labour, so that such a rush does not occur. Even at the moment, some countries like germany, still have restrictions on movement from the eastern european countries....and i would imagine the same for cyprus(and EU) /turkey.
it is also detrimental to turkey, since all its 'skilled/good/healty' labour would be moving out of turkey to find work in the rest of europe, and potentiallynot bringing the money back home. |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| cypezokyli wrote: |
common vp.
when there is an article saying the Greek Cypriots dont want to return , or Greek Cypriots dont want to live next to Turkish Cypriots , or Greek Cypriots want partition , you come along and say : i predicted that.
and then you start with these secret plans of greekification of Turkish Cypriots.
imo , for more than a couple of decades (at least) , i dont believe that the Greek Cypriots wouldnt even reach the point in being contrained even by the stupid restrictions of the AP. remember the arguments about the realities , and the years of living apart ?
besides , noone is challanging the Turkish Cypriot communal rights. |
Don't really think I understand what you are trying to state?? |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| Viewpoint wrote: |
| I did say I think you said, man you are so uptight today, lack of sleep or something else? |
If we are to accept than for the next 50 years the 35% maximum should be guaranteed, what problem will you have? |
No problem for me but have said that you are the one with a problem? |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| Birkibrisli wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
My problem with Kifeas' vision is that it gives too much concession to our ethnic identities which will serve to cement our differences instead of encouraging us to concentrate on our similarities.
But i do acknowledge that I am in the minority in thinking thus.The majority of Turkish Cypriots are looking for more concrete protections than what common sense would dictate.Instead of speaking for them I will let them speak for themselves,if they so chose,and dissect Kifeas's proposal.
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Brother, I am not emphasising this aspect because this is how I or the rest of the G/Cs do necessarily want this to be the case. I am emphasising this because the T/Cs want this to be the case and /or the basis of our relationship in this country. |
I know,Kifeas. That's why I said I am in a peculiar situation.You are giving me more concessions than I want.But it is the likes of Viewpoint that we must convince.
But let me ask you one thing.And Viewpoint too might want to respond to this: Are you not concerned that when Turkey joins the EU (after a solution in Cyprus presumably) millions of Turks might come and settle in Cyprus,both in the North and the South and reduce the Greek Cypriots to a minority??? |
Then of course derogation's are the order of the day, do you call that double standards? |
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Bananiot
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 1214
Location: Nicosia
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This is getting way out of hand. On one hand there is Kifeas claiming in all seriousness that his idea of BBF is the model that the government and Papadopoulos himself is proposing and on the other hand the rest of the forum taking him seriously and arguing the finer details. I would be interested, as anyone would be, to see hard evidence of this and also the official reaction of the other side.
I do not want to return the compliments of Kifeas but I am hoping that once his arsenal of insults is exhausted he can debate in a civilised manner. However, if it makes him feel better, he can go on abusing the rules of the forum since the state of his health is more important than our little abstract debates. Obviously, this kind of behaviour has a therapeutic effect on him and I fully respect this.
P.S. If there is a tsunami in the south, where shall we go? If a spacecraft, loaded with extra terrestrials, lands in the place where he was ousted from, what would the settlers do? These are the types of questions he asks and expects serious answers. |
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boulio
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 294
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This is getting way out of hand. On one hand there is Kifeas claiming in all seriousness that his idea of BBF is the model that the government and Papadopoulos himself is proposing and on the other hand the rest of the forum taking him seriously and arguing the finer details. I would be interested, as anyone would be, to see hard evidence of this and also the official reaction of the other side.
I do not want to return the compliments of Kifeas but I am hoping that once his arsenal of insults is exhausted he can debate in a civilised manner. However, if it makes him feel better, he can go on abusing the rules of the forum since the state of his health is more important than our little abstract debates. Obviously, this kind of behaviour has a therapeutic effect on him and I fully respect this.
P.S. If there is a tsunami in the south, where shall we go? If a spacecraft, loaded with extra terrestrials, lands in the place where he was ousted from, what would the settlers do? These are the types of questions he asks and expects serious answers.
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whats your plan?all i ever see you doing is bashing papadopoulos and putting nothing of substance forward.If you are going to criticize kifeas for putting suggestions forward i would back it up with counter proposals if not i suggest you shut your hole. |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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| Quote: |
| I think the first four are acceptable,the last one wont work because the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is illegal. |
same thing i was thinking, maybe it would be easier if joint sporting teams etc were created ,like the Koreans. Its the treade and economic ones thatare going to be hard to get Greek Cypriots convinced by. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Viewpoint wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
| Viewpoint wrote: |
| I did say I think you said, man you are so uptight today, lack of sleep or something else? |
If we are to accept than for the next 50 years the 35% maximum should be guaranteed, what problem will you have? |
No problem for me but have said that you are the one with a problem? |
VP, putting aside for a while the issue of guaranteed majorities, what do you have to say about the rest of my ideas before it? I want your own personal opinion, and please try to be fair, objective, sensible and realistic, as much as this is possible, and please try to think outside the box. I would like to know your opinion. |
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