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brother Warnings : 3 Site Admin

Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 8920 Location: London/Cyprus
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Fear of isolation grips Greek Cypriots ahead of key EU meetings
Wednesday, August 24, 2005
ANKARA - Turkish Daily News
The Greek Cypriot administration has been studying possible scenarios regarding the attitude of 24 European Union partners on Turkey's non-recognition of Greek Cyprus, with the worst-case scenario appearing to be ?remaining alone.?
Greek Cypriot leader Tassos Papadopoulos earlier this week informed members of the Greek Cypriot National Council on the attitude he would assume concerning Turkey's refusal to recognize Greek Cyprus during the upcoming meeting of the Committee of Permanent Representatives in the European Union (COREPER) on Aug. 31, and then an unofficial gathering of EU foreign ministers on Sept. 1 and 2.
Ankara signed a protocol last month extending its existing customs union deal with the EU to new members of the bloc, including Greek Cyprus. Nevertheless, Turkey announced in an attached declaration that the signing of the protocol would not amount to official recognition of the Greek Cypriot government.
Greek Cypriot daily Phileleftheros reported yesterday that Greek Cyprus as the only EU member that continues to raise Turkey's recognition of Greek Cyprus as a condition for starting accession talks with the bloc was among the scenarios discussed during the council's meeting.
The Greek Cypriot administration has been concerned that EU members might not take heed of its opinion regarding the recognition issue, the daily said.
Greece, Greek Cyprus regard France's attitude as ?key':
The daily said that Papadopoulos, during his meeting with Greek Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis in Athens last week, was assured of the full support of the Greek government whatever the Greek Cypriot thesis.
Now the question being argued by the Greek and Greek Cypriot governments is what will happen if they cannot find any other EU members in favor of the Greek Cypriot thesis, Phileleftheros said.
Papadopoulos is preparing to lobby partners on the "old continent" and expects French government insistence on raising Turkey's recognition of Greek Cyprus as a new condition for the start of Turkey's accession talks in order to stand against Turkey, the daily said.
Another Greek Cypriot daily, Politis, backed up Phileleftheros' report, saying both the Greek Cypriot administration and Athens regard the French attitude as ?key? to the entire issue. |
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magikthrill
Mukhtar/is

Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 630 Location: NYC
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let's see how stupid T-Pap is if he is going to push for recognition in October for negotiations to begin.
Also, brother, could you put links under every article you post just to know where the info is coming from. Thanks. |
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brother Warnings : 3 Site Admin

Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 8920 Location: London/Cyprus
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gabs
Villager

Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 98
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cyprus is in a political position over the use of its veto.
seen to be in a damned if we do and damned if we dont situation.
Constantinopolitis
your letter to pm blair contains nothing he doesnt know or hasnt been told.
stick it in the round file huh? along to all the letters ive sent him about speed cameras in london.
you suggest he is urging eu states for some kind of political rapport with Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. In fairness to him this may be out of his own experiences with the ulster problem, where peace is now at least a few steps closer than during the negotiating embargo imposed periods of previous british governments.
talking does make some sense.
does your name suggest you're still having problems recognising istanbul. |
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magikthrill
Mukhtar/is

Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 630 Location: NYC
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| i think his name implies he has origins from istanbul. also constantinoupoli is the greek name of istanbul. just like we are called Hellenes in our language but in Turkish we are called Yunan... |
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cannedmoose Warnings : 4 Moderator

Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 5357 Location: National Forest, England
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To be honest, I think it's going to be a classic EU fudge. The French and others will be persuaded to defer their veto on Turkey's accession until a later time, probably in the hope that they announce a referendum in the future and in the fullness of time the idea is dropped.
As for Cyprus, I think TPap will come under a heap of pressure from the UK Presidency and others not to wave the right of veto around the room. Veto is certainly a dirty word in Brussels and Cyprus would be well-advised not to threaten it. Rather, I think TPap will be advised by those who support Turkey's accession talks, that the accession process will contain numerous opportunities at key stages for informal discussions between representatives of the Republic of Cyprus and Turkey, in which the recognition and other issues can be pursued. Ultimately, Cyprus will continue to wield the right of veto on Turkey's ultimate accession, at which time the stakes will be far higher for Turkey given that she will have made (at least in theory) all of the necessary adjustments in order to be a member of the Union.
I guess it all depends on whether TPap wants some glory himself at this stage, or whether he's willing to defer the fight and let someone else potentially reap the rewards. If he's planning to stand again in 2008, it will certainly be interesting to see the stance he adopts in the run-up to that election. |
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MicAtCyp Warnings : 1 Senior Villager

Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 313
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| wrote: |
| The Greek Cypriot administration has been studying possible scenarios regarding the attitude of 24 European Union partners on Turkey's non-recognition of Greek Cyprus, with the worst-case scenario appearing to be ?remaining alone.? |
Brother,
Could you please ask your newspaper to provide us an official EU map showing this "Greek Cyprus" that joined the EU?
Furthermore could you please ask him, how many gramms there are in a kilogram, I am really curious to learn his answer.
| gabs wrote: |
cyprus is in a political position over the use of its veto.
seen to be in a damned if we do and damned if we dont situation. |
Hmm... thats a sensible statement for a change. I would say one of the two "damns" might be damned to hell, in which case Cyprus will not have any other option than veto. We will see...
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Constantinopolitis
your letter to pm blair contains nothing he doesnt know or hasnt been told.
stick it in the round file huh? along to all the letters ive sent him about speed cameras in london. |
?????? wrong thread perhaps?
| Cannedmoose wrote: |
| Rather, I think TPap will be advised by those who support Turkey's accession talks, that the accession process will contain numerous opportunities at key stages for informal discussions between representatives of the Republic of Cyprus and Turkey, in which the recognition and other issues can be pursued. Ultimately, Cyprus will continue to wield the right of veto on Turkey's ultimate accession, at which time the stakes will be far higher for Turkey given that she will have made (at least in theory) all of the necessary adjustments in order to be a member of the Union. |
First of all you assume that Turkey will become a full member.Turkey will never become a full member and any politician who makes his plans on the opposite assumtion is simply naive.
Second it is not a matter of advice and pressure.It is a matter of the prerequisites regarding the moves Turkey has to make in her EU road regarding Cyprus.Either these exist or they don't exist. If these are missing then forget about everything. Papadopoulos is releying on this EU process. If he sees that everything is in stake from the very begining he will simply refuse to give his consent. |
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brother Warnings : 3 Site Admin

Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 8920 Location: London/Cyprus
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| Quote: |
Could you please ask your newspaper to provide us an official EU map showing this "Greek Cyprus" that joined the EU?
Furthermore could you please ask him, how many gramms there are in a kilogram, I am really curious to learn his answer. |
"My newspaper"....i wish but its not but if you are that interested i have posted the link feel free to contact them yourself and ask for that map etc. and any other quims you may have.
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| First of all you assume that Turkey will become a full member.Turkey will never become a full member |
So now you have officially become 'nostradamus' and can see into the future, so what colour pants will tassos be wearing tommorrow. |
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Mete Warnings : 3 Deputy

Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 1150 Location: Boston
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| brother wrote: |
So now you have officially become 'nostradamus' and can see into the future, so what colour pants will tassos be wearing tommorrow.
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Isn't it funny how some talk like they're God or something?  |
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brother Warnings : 3 Site Admin

Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 8920 Location: London/Cyprus
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| Quote: |
| Isn't it funny how some talk like they're God or something? |
I can accept educated guess on a current situation but something that is 10-15 years away at best then you are either physcic or nostradamus imo. |
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MicAtCyp Warnings : 1 Senior Villager

Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 313
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| brother wrote: |
| I can accept educated guess on a current situation but something that is 10 - 15 years away at best then you are either physcic or nostradamus imo. |
Nostradamus? No, it's called been able to see a little further away from your nose. Turkey will never become a full EU member because of the following reasons:
1. Population: Power sharing in Europe is according to population. If Turkey becomes a full member it will have the biggest Political power sharing
2. Currently the power sharing in EU is in line with Economic Power. Turkey cannot become the number one power sharing partner without being also the number 1 economic power. And this is completely impossible within the next 50 years.
3. The mentality of Turkish people is far away from the European one. No way for EU to turn itself into a Turkish mentality.
4. Turkey is a muslim country. EU is a Christian club.
May I ask the non Nostradamuses of this forum why there are currently no thoughts for Russia to become an EU member?
And by the way brother when posting something from a newspaper presumably you should be in a position to support it's content. I could also post many craps in here and then tell you to go and ask the publisher. If this is the discussion you can have then you better stick to the jokes section. |
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brother Warnings : 3 Site Admin

Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 8920 Location: London/Cyprus
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| Quote: |
| 1. Population: Power sharing in Europe is according to population. If Turkey becomes a full member it will have the biggest Political power sharing |
And that is a problem because........you don't like the turks to have power (backward and racist thinking imo)
| Quote: |
| 2. Currently the power sharing in EU is in line with Economic Power. Turkey cannot become the number one power sharing partner without being also the number 1 economic power. And this is completely impossible within the next 50 years. |
So are you suggesting that France is so powerful or Germany, they both seem to be struggling with high unemployement and weak currency, don't seem to powerful to me.
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| 3. The mentality of Turkish people is far away from the European one. No way for EU to turn itself into a Turkish mentality. |
Are you trying to be a comedian if so apply to a cypriot station for the local jester position, the turkish people are more than capable of progressing given the chance but by holding them back with your petty prejudices how can you expect then to europeanise.
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4. Turkey is a muslim country. EU is a Christian club.
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So this is a RACIST club that is taking the piss out of a muslim country by making promises that it never intends to keep, that to me sums up a rubbish union of accomplished liars.
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| And by the way brother when posting something from a newspaper presumably you should be in a position to support it's content. I could also post many craps in here and then tell you to go and ask the publisher. If this is the discussion you can have then you better stick to the jokes section. |
When i post i look to encourage a debate and i usually quote if i support the article or not but your asking me to go and ask the publisher irrelevant questions that you already know the answer too is sending me on a wild goose chase hence you go on your own wild goose chase.
Based on your above answers i think you should accompany me to the joke section as you seem to be the biggest joker here at the moment. |
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cannedmoose Warnings : 4 Moderator

Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 5357 Location: National Forest, England
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| MicAtCyp wrote: |
Nostradamus? No, it's called been able to see a little further away from your nose. Turkey will never become a full EU member because of the following reasons:
1. Population: Power sharing in Europe is according to population. If Turkey becomes a full member it will have the biggest Political power sharing
2. Currently the power sharing in EU is in line with Economic Power. Turkey cannot become the number one power sharing partner without being also the number 1 economic power. And this is completely impossible within the next 50 years.
3. The mentality of Turkish people is far away from the European one. No way for EU to turn itself into a Turkish mentality.
4. Turkey is a muslim country. EU is a Christian club. |
MicAtCyp, you've made some very absolutist statements in this post, many of which you cannot substantiate. Let me deal with them one by one.
1. It is true that voting weights in Europe are determined by population, but this is not done on a purely proportional basis. For example, the UK has a population approximately 1 million larger than that of France, but has exactly the same representation in the European Parliament and the same voting weight in the Council - even under the proposal made for the new Constitution, parity remained. It is therefore likely that Turkey, with a population hovering around 80 million in 2020 will be given a voting weight proportional to that of Germany, whose population is static. Given that on many issues a qualified majority is required, Turkey would not be in a position to 'govern' Europe, but would require consensus amongst other countries and would therefore need to accord with EU norms of conciliation and negotiation to achieve any of its aims. Moreover, on certain key issues, unanimity in both the Council of Ministers and the European Council is required.
2. You are completely wrong on this one. In no way is the European Union governed in relation to individual state's economic power. GDP has nothing to do with determining voting weights in any EU institution, beyond possibly the EU's single representation at the WTO, where the larger states tend to take the lead. However, the Turkish economy is the single economy in Europe that has the greatest potential for rapid development and growth - if the economy is well-managed. I wouldn't be surprised to see Turkish growth rate exceeding 5-6% for at least the next 20 years, which would have a radical impact within the country and would also benefit trade across Europe.
3. I would agree with this in some aspects. The Turkish government has displayed a rather dogmatic approach to EU negotiations, attempting to portray it as a negotiation of equals, which it clearly is not. From people I know who work for the EU, however, this degree of dogmatism is not duplicated at administrative levels, where EU actors have been extremely impressed by the efficiency and attitudes of the Turkish officials with whom they've worked. To work effectively in the EU, the government has to realise that the EU works in a collegial fashion.
4. Sorry, but this is utter rubbish. No-one apart from Catholic political parties have claimed that the EU is a Christian club. Given that 20m Muslims live in EU countries, they are as much a part of the European community as anyone else. You would be hard-pushed to find anyone in higher channels within the EU who subscribes to this. |
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detailer
Senior Villager

Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 473 Location: UK
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MitAtCyp,
Can I ask you one question?
If this is really a big deal for you(not everyone in EU thinks like that btw)
| Quote: |
| 4. Turkey is a muslim country. EU is a Christian club |
How can you expect us to trust you in united Cyprus as we are muslims as well? |
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detailer
Senior Villager

Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 473 Location: UK
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It is this common mentality amongst Greek Cypriot who forces Turkish Cypriot to consider "disguised partition". They think that the term "turk" is completely unadaptable to Europe(their understanding). They put down ottoman culture, successes, whatever.... since they first knew them until today, unfortunately even tomorrow.
How can I trust this guy if I apply to him (assuming he is as an employer) for a job that he will truly assess my qualifications and capacity? If I accept all his absolutism, maybe... What about if I dont? |
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