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We are not Cypriots in the North, but Turkish Cypriots
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Birkibrisli wrote: |
Hello,Kifeas...Delighted to see you back,brother.
I hope you don't mind my putting in my two cents worth about Erol's insistence on uphelding the forum rules.He is right to say that the forum would be ungovernable if anybody who thought any statement to be a personal insult(subjectively) to personally insult the person who made the statement. |
Merhaba brother? Thank you for the welcoming!
It seems that some people here are somehow trying to convince me that I am a gay and therefore I should try and get married with another man, instead of a woman! Nevertheless, this one was not for you but for some others!
Brother, claiming that the T/Cs have the right to declare their independence in “their” north Cyprus ancestral homeland, now that this was liberated from its former G/C occupiers /rulers /colonizers -using as an analogy the declaration of independence by the ex-soviet union republics that were liberated from the Russian yoke, is not simply un unhistorical perversion that should be judged and seen as a mere subjective matter of opinion. Claiming such a thing, especially in the presence of an audience that is also constituted by G/Cs who have illegally and unjustly been kicked out of their ancestral towns, villages, homes and properties, though an act of aggression by a foreign country, which has also transferred its own population to fill the population gap that was created after the expelling of the 200,000 of indigenous population, and callings this a liberation act of the then 55,000 T/C inhabitants of the north but also an act of liberation of those transferred from outside this area and also outside this country, a liberation from the yoke of the 200,000 G/C “occupiers,” and then claiming a right to also declare its so-called independence, is beyond pervasiveness, distortion and stupidity, freedom of expression and a matter of opinion. It is a deliberate distortion of facts which equates and amounts to an INSULT of the worst kind in the eyes of the people that have been the victims of the facts and who seek justice and an ending of their human right violations. Please, this is not a subjective matter of opinion by me who happens to be one of the victims and points out the obvious, or a matter of opinion of the one that makes such a claim. It is an insult by all means, rules and measures! I personally will feel way less insulted to be called all names on the planet, than to be confronted with such a claim that Dayi has made! Any one with the slightest amount of dignity will also feel the same!
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
I have a very simple rule I try to observe when i get upset or angry with someone on the forums.I attack their action not their person. There is a big difference between saying "I consider your attitude thuggish" and saying "You are a thug!".In both cases you are making your opinion obvious.But in the first case you are not braking the forum rules,in the second you are.
And of course in the second case you are risking being personally attacked back,especially if you are right and your interlocutor is indeed a thug.And then it is on for young and old.  |
I think I understand what you are saying! In other words, you believe that instead of me calling Eric Dayi a person with a low IQ, for claiming the above, I should have instead said that the way Eric Dayi talks and the things that he says are an indication of a person with a low IQ, or things that only a person with a low IQ would have said. Am I right in the way I interpret you here? |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| Kifeas wrote: |
It is a deliberate distortion of facts which equates and amounts to an INSULT of the worst kind in the eyes of the people that have been the victims of the facts and who seek justice and an ending of their human right violations. Please, this is not a subjective matter of opinion by me who happens to be one of the victims and points out the obvious, or a matter of opinion of the one that makes such a claim.
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Kifeas, you're overreacting. If we go down this road, then the very existence of a Greek Cypriot government in the south who claims to represent all Cyprus and Cypriots is a direct insult to Turkish Cypriots! Just think about it. We have a government in the south that has been only Greek Cypriot for the past 40 years and this government claims to represent all Cyprus when there hasn't been a single Turkish Cypriot elected in that government.
This is like saying: "We don't care if Turkish Cypriots want to be part of this government or not, we'll claim to represent them anyway because we're the majority!".
This is pretty insulting, don't you agree? But I guess you don't agree, the same way that a Turkish Cypriot might not agree that claiming independence in the north might be an insult to a Greek Cypriot.
Things are not black and white and you're trying to enforce your version of black and white world to the forum by not letting people express their opinions, no matter how much you disagree. This is the way I see it right now.
| Kifeas wrote: |
I think I understand what you are saying! In other words, you believe that instead of me calling Eric Dayi a person with a low IQ, for claiming the above, I should have instead said that the way Eric Dayi talks and the things that he says are an indication of a person with a low IQ, or things that only a person with a low IQ would have said. Am I right in the way I interpret you here?
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How about instead of arguing the person, argue the point? So if someone says Turkish Cypriots have the right to set up their own state in the north, then reply to that person why that point is wrong, instead of getting personal. What will calling someone stupid buy you anyway? Will you be more knowledgable after calling someone stupid? I guess it makes you feel better but that's pretty much it.
Again, we need to remind ourselves why we're in this forum. Personally, I'm here to hear different views and expand my knowledge. If someone says something I don't like, I'll try to argue their points but there's no point in getting personal really. It never ever gets us anywhere. I know it's hard not to get personal sometimes but we should at least try. |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| I think I understand what you are saying! In other words, you believe that instead of me calling Eric Dayi a person with a low IQ, for claiming the above, I should have instead said that the way Eric Dayi talks and the things that he says are an indication of a person with a low IQ, or things that only a person with a low IQ would have said. Am I right in the way I interpret you here? |
And I would come back with something like "People like Kiefeas who attack peoples IQ are only doing it to hide their own low IQ because they have run out of arguments and/or their vocabulary doesn't give them the use many words to put their arguments forward."
If you don't think that what you said above isn't a personal insult Kiefeas than don't claim that what I wrote is. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Eric Dayi wrote: |
And I would come back with something like "People like Kiefeas who attack peoples IQ are only doing it to hide their own low IQ because they have run out of arguments and/or their vocabulary doesn't give them the use many words to put their arguments forward."
If you don't think that what you said above isn't a personal insult Kiefeas than don't claim that what I wrote is. |
Eric, in December of 1963, the Turkish Cypriot community has attempted to commit a mutiny against the Republic of Cyprus, for the sole purpose of rendering it dysfunctional and thus null and void, so that Turkey will be allowed to invade and partition the country. In your effort to do so, you attacked secretly the Turkish Cypriots and killed some of them in Kuchuk Kaimackli and Ayios vasilios, so that you blame it on the Greek Cypriots in order to prove that they were indeed conspiring to perform ethnic cleansing against your community. You then went ahead and unilaterally withdrew from all the institutions of the Republic of Cyprus, and you set up your own separate institutions as a precursor to your separate partitionist state. You then asked the TMT to harass the T/C villagers all around Cyprus so that they are compelled to withdraw inside the enclaves, so that you prove to the rest of the word that they G/Cs were up to annihilate them. Occasionally, you (the Turkish Cypriot para-militarists) were going around and killing T/C civilians, so that you justify the need to partition the island. Then, in 1974, you seized the opportunity that the coup provided for you to call n Turkey to invade so that you set up your own secessionist state in the north. Do you think I do not know what you did in Cyprus? |
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Khan
Deputy
Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 1092
Location: London
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| Eric Dayi wrote: |
And I would come back with something like "People like Kiefeas who attack peoples IQ are only doing it to hide their own low IQ because they have run out of arguments and/or their vocabulary doesn't give them the use many words to put their arguments forward."
If you don't think that what you said above isn't a personal insult Kiefeas than don't claim that what I wrote is. |
Eric, in December of 1963, the Turkish Cypriot community has attempted to commit a mutiny against the Republic of Cyprus, for the sole purpose of rendering it dysfunctional and thus null and void, so that Turkey will be allowed to invade and partition the country. In your effort to do so, you attacked secretly the Turkish Cypriots and killed some of them in Kuchuk Kaimackli and Ayios vasilios, so that you blame it on the Greek Cypriots in order to prove that they were indeed conspiring to perform ethnic cleansing against your community. You then went ahead and unilaterally withdrew from all the institutions of the Republic of Cyprus, and you set up your own separate institutions as a precursor to your separate partitionist state. You then asked the TMT to harass the T/C villagers all around Cyprus so that they are compelled to withdraw inside the enclaves, so that you prove to the rest of the word that they G/Cs were up to annihilate them. Occasionally, you (the Turkish Cypriot para-militarists) were going around and killing T/C civilians, so that you justify the need to partition the island. Then, in 1974, you seized the opportunity that the coup provided for you to call n Turkey to invade so that you set up your own secessionist state in the north. Do you think I do not know what you did in Cyprus? |
If there ever was a more perfect example of Greek Cypriot nationalist rubbish, the above would be it. |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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If there ever was a more perfect example of Greek Cypriot nationalist rubbish, the above would be it.
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I agree but still better than personal insults, don't you think? |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| Eric Dayi wrote: |
And I would come back with something like "People like Kiefeas who attack peoples IQ are only doing it to hide their own low IQ because they have run out of arguments and/or their vocabulary doesn't give them the use many words to put their arguments forward."
If you don't think that what you said above isn't a personal insult Kiefeas than don't claim that what I wrote is. |
Eric, in December of 1963, the Turkish Cypriot community has attempted to commit a mutiny against the Republic of Cyprus, for the sole purpose of rendering it dysfunctional and thus null and void, so that Turkey will be allowed to invade and partition the country. In your effort to do so, you attacked secretly the Turkish Cypriots and killed some of them in Kuchuk Kaimackli and Ayios vasilios, so that you blame it on the Greek Cypriots in order to prove that they were indeed conspiring to perform ethnic cleansing against your community. You then went ahead and unilaterally withdrew from all the institutions of the Republic of Cyprus, and you set up your own separate institutions as a precursor to your separate partitionist state. You then asked the TMT to harass the T/C villagers all around Cyprus so that they are compelled to withdraw inside the enclaves, so that you prove to the rest of the word that they G/Cs were up to annihilate them. Occasionally, you (the Turkish Cypriot para-militarists) were going around and killing T/C civilians, so that you justify the need to partition the island. Then, in 1974, you seized the opportunity that the coup provided for you to call n Turkey to invade so that you set up your own secessionist state in the north. Do you think I do not know what you did in Cyprus? |
Kiefeas, keep spreading Greek Cypriot propaganda, you never know, you might get more than Birkibrisli to believe you one day. In the meantime you should really understand that you are not talking to a 5 year old who could be easily brainwashed by lies.  |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1767
Location: Canada
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| Mete wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
It is a deliberate distortion of facts which equates and amounts to an INSULT of the worst kind in the eyes of the people that have been the victims of the facts and who seek justice and an ending of their human right violations. Please, this is not a subjective matter of opinion by me who happens to be one of the victims and points out the obvious, or a matter of opinion of the one that makes such a claim.
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Kifeas, you're overreacting. If we go down this road, then the very existence of a Greek Cypriot government in the south who claims to represent all Cyprus and Cypriots is a direct insult to Turkish Cypriots! Just think about it. We have a government in the south that has been only Greek Cypriot for the past 40 years and this government claims to represent all Cyprus when there hasn't been a single Turkish Cypriot elected in that government.
This is like saying: "We don't care if Turkish Cypriots want to be part of this government or not, we'll claim to represent them anyway because we're the majority!".
This is pretty insulting, don't you agree? But I guess you don't agree, the same way that a Turkish Cypriot might not agree that claiming independence in the north might be an insult to a Greek Cypriot.
Things are not black and white and you're trying to enforce your version of black and white world to the forum by not letting people express their opinions, no matter how much you disagree. This is the way I see it right now.
| Kifeas wrote: |
I think I understand what you are saying! In other words, you believe that instead of me calling Eric Dayi a person with a low IQ, for claiming the above, I should have instead said that the way Eric Dayi talks and the things that he says are an indication of a person with a low IQ, or things that only a person with a low IQ would have said. Am I right in the way I interpret you here?
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How about instead of arguing the person, argue the point? So if someone says Turkish Cypriots have the right to set up their own state in the north, then reply to that person why that point is wrong, instead of getting personal. What will calling someone stupid buy you anyway? Will you be more knowledgable after calling someone stupid? I guess it makes you feel better but that's pretty much it.
Again, we need to remind ourselves why we're in this forum. Personally, I'm here to hear different views and expand my knowledge. If someone says something I don't like, I'll try to argue their points but there's no point in getting personal really. It never ever gets us anywhere. I know it's hard not to get personal sometimes but we should at least try. |
Thank-you, well said. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1767
Location: Canada
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| Pathetic is when some one is trying to force two communities to live together |
My dream, two capitals in Jerusalem, three in Nicosia.
Pathetic the dreams which promote more of this impasse. Selfish would be insulting, so I say, unreasoned, as fantasy. |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| repulsewarrior wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Pathetic is when some one is trying to force two communities to live together |
My dream, two capitals in Jerusalem, three in Nicosia. |
Two in Nocosia, one in the South and one in the North. Just like it is now really but both sides recognised as two different countries.
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| Pathetic the dreams which promote more of this impasse. Selfish would be insulting, so I say, unreasoned, as fantasy. |
Pathetic is when selfish people refuse to see beyond the length of their noses and are selfishly prepared to take a chance of forcing a marriage which they know could end up in tears, death and destruction. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1767
Location: Canada
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| erolz wrote: |
| repulsewarrior wrote: |
| Turkish Cypriots are not just Cypriots, Greek Cypriots are not just Cypriots, both are Cypriots, but most importantly, they are all members of the Family of Man. |
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| Maybe one day we will grow up as a species but I doubt I personally will to see this. |
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You are mistaken, mathematically and in the spirit of the revolution that is taking over Mankind. Digital information and its instantaneous transmission, to and from anywhere on the planet, no, within our galaxy is a force on our thinking, as yet, at its advent, growing exponentially. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1767
Location: Canada
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| Kifeas wrote: |
[
Again you have not answered my questions in a specific and direct way. My conclusion from the above is that in the ottoman exercise (case) I have put to you above, you claim that the G/C community should have not been allowed to liberate its country from the ottoman rule, even if it constitutes the vast majority simply because this would have ignored and violated the separate self-determination rights of the T/C community, which would choose Cyprus to continue being part of the Ottoman empire! In other words, the 80% of Cypriots should have remained subjects to the Ottomans, only because a separate community that constitutes the 20% of the people doesn't want the status quo to change and in-line with its "separate" self-determination rights.
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Goodpoint Kifeas, better said, never thought of that before. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1767
Location: Canada
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| Eric, I am afraid of the future, but I embrace change, because you cannot stop it. |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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| Eric Dayi wrote: |
| Pathetic is when selfish people refuse to see beyond the length of their noses and are selfishly prepared to take a chance of forcing a marriage which they know could end up in tears, death and destruction. |
or , pathetic is when selfish people want to split the island, and not try to reconcile the two communities, and build a state on land that was not originally theirs |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| repulsewarrior wrote: |
| Eric, I am afraid of the future, but I embrace change, because you cannot stop it. |
Ok, go take a walk in on a busy motorway and see how much you would be prepared to "embrace" the danger. |
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