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SP
Senior Villager
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 267
Location: Girne
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| pg wrote: |
| Eric Dayi wrote: |
| pg wrote: |
Returning to the original subject of the discussion,
If this trade deal is implemented, would it mean that the Turkish Cypriot community will be able to trade in way they need? |
No it doesn't. It means that they are offering us Turkish Cypriot's 139mil in aid so that we can still be kept under embargoes and without the simplest human rights to trade. In other words they are saying "take the money and shut up, the Greek Cypriot shave more rights than any Turkish Cypriot!"  |
It is clear that the 'aid package' does not in itself cover trade. However, my question was related to the 'trade part'. If that is accepted, would it facilitate the required trade? |
Yes |
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SP
Senior Villager
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 267
Location: Girne
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| Birkibrisli wrote: |
Can somebody enlighten me on this issue:
The financial aid and the direct trade regulations have been split.
For direct trade the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus will have to give back Varoshia,open the Famagusta port jointly under the EU control,and agree to a moratorium on Greek Cypriot land developments in the North. Am i right so far?
What is the condition for getting the financial aid (139M euros)?
Is there a condition? |
That's right by my understanding too
No I do not think so |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| The only trade package that really matters and could come anywhere near close to recuperating for the loss or ecnomic activity and growth a moritoum on sales of pre 74 Greek Cypriot property, is direct flights. It is far from clear that even with the consession being demanded by some quarters from the Turkish Cypriot, to get what was already promised to them, that direct flights would be part of this package anyway. Still we should rejoice at the kindness of the Republic of Cyprus I guess and how 'progressive' for an eventual solution this blackmail is ? |
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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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| SP wrote: |
| pg wrote: |
| Eric Dayi wrote: |
| pg wrote: |
Returning to the original subject of the discussion,
If this trade deal is implemented, would it mean that the Turkish Cypriot community will be able to trade in way they need? |
No it doesn't. It means that they are offering us Turkish Cypriot's 139mil in aid so that we can still be kept under embargoes and without the simplest human rights to trade. In other words they are saying "take the money and shut up, the Greek Cypriot shave more rights than any Turkish Cypriot!" |
It is clear that the 'aid package' does not in itself cover trade. However, my question was related to the 'trade part'. If that is accepted, would it facilitate the required trade? |
Yes |
Great. |
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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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| erolz wrote: |
| The only trade package that really matters and could come anywhere near close to recuperating for the loss or ecnomic activity and growth a moritoum on sales of pre 74 Greek Cypriot property, is direct flights. It is far from clear that even with the consession being demanded by some quarters from the Turkish Cypriot, to get what was already promised to them, that direct flights would be part of this package anyway. Still we should rejoice at the kindness of the Republic of Cyprus I guess and how 'progressive' for an eventual solution this blackmail is ? |
The Turkish Cypriot community is supposed to be the "good guys" now, and pending they really are the EU finds it reasonable that direct trade within the EU is allowed.
However, the EU also finds it highly reasonable that the 40,000 refugees of Varosha is allowed to go back home - especially since there are no practical difficulties in doing so.
In addition, the Turkish Cypriot community are the "good guys" because the are pro-solution and want to give the Greek Cypriot properties back to their owners. Regarding also ECHR decisions, which has a high weight in Europe, the EU does not find it reasonable that the Turkish Cypriot community must be allowed to destroy Greek Cypriot property.
Basically, the Turkish Cypriot community claim to be the "good reasonable guy" since they agreed to give (parts) of Greek Cypriot property back. However, the next day they decided to sell as much as possible if that property to foreigners, as quickly as possible, before they have to give them back 'for free' to the Greek Cypriot owner. It is difficult to do that and still insist to be the "good guy".
I do not think every single Turkish Cypriot is trying to sell his Greek Cypriot property as soon as possible, but clearly there are some business forces doing this. And the fact that they seem to have the support of the politically elected Turkish Cypriot leadership does not put you in a good light. |
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Birkibrisli
Deputy
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1466
Location: Australia
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I am still confused about the financial aid...
Are there any conditions attached to getting that money???
Or to put it in another way,what obligations would Talat have if he accepts that money??? |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| pg wrote: |
| erolz wrote: |
| The only trade package that really matters and could come anywhere near close to recuperating for the loss or ecnomic activity and growth a moritoum on sales of pre 74 Greek Cypriot property, is direct flights. It is far from clear that even with the consession being demanded by some quarters from the Turkish Cypriot, to get what was already promised to them, that direct flights would be part of this package anyway. Still we should rejoice at the kindness of the Republic of Cyprus I guess and how 'progressive' for an eventual solution this blackmail is ? |
The Turkish Cypriot community is supposed to be the "good guys" now, and pending they really are the EU finds it reasonable that direct trade within the EU is allowed.
However, the EU also finds it highly reasonable that the 40,000 refugees of Varosha is allowed to go back home - especially since there are no practical difficulties in doing so.
In addition, the Turkish Cypriot community are the "good guys" because the are pro-solution and want to give the Greek Cypriot properties back to their owners. Regarding also ECHR decisions, which has a high weight in Europe, the EU does not find it reasonable that the Turkish Cypriot community must be allowed to destroy Greek Cypriot property.
Basically, the Turkish Cypriot community claim to be the "good reasonable guy" since they agreed to give (parts) of Greek Cypriot property back. However, the next day they decided to sell as much as possible if that property to foreigners, as quickly as possible, before they have to give them back 'for free' to the Greek Cypriot owner. It is difficult to do that and still insist to be the "good guy".
I do not think every single Turkish Cypriot is trying to sell his Greek Cypriot property as soon as possible, but clearly there are some business forces doing this. And the fact that they seem to have the support of the politically elected Turkish Cypriot leadership does not put you in a good light. |
I really do not know what you are sayiong PG. The EU pledged to end the Norths economic isolation as a result of us voting yes to the Annan plan and you voting no. That was the pledge. Now after abuse of the Republic of Cyprus position in the Eu, it seems the EU is saying we will make good on our promise to you but now you have to do more than when we initaslly promised it. Although we said we would end you isolation if you voted yes and Greek Cypriot voted no, now we are saying (after Republic of Cyprus blocking and pressure) we will end it (but not saying about direct flights) if you ALSO return varsoha AND hand over famagusta port to EU control (whatever that means?) AND place a moritorium on the sale of pre 74 Greek Cypriot property. Yep thanks EU - great deal and great way to inspire fisth from Northern Cypriots in EU pledges and their ability to be impartial and no subject to Republic of Cyprus blackmail.
As for destroying Greek Cypriot property, my house is on LAND that was Greek Cypriot before 74. Far form it being destroyed it has had a hpouse built on it an maintained and is in vastly better condition than it ever was. However in order to get an end to isolation - which was promised anyway by EU without futher consession - I must now accept that I can not sell this property. In return I get what? Will direct flights be allowed ? |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Birkibrisli wrote: |
I am still confused about the financial aid...
Are there any conditions attached to getting that money???
Or to put it in another way,what obligations would Talat have if he accepts that money??? |
There are no conditions on the aid. It is insginifcant. It represent a one of payement that is about 1/3rd to 1/4 of what Turkey gives the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus EVERY YEAR - and thats without and charging for the miliatry presense here. We do not want AID. We do not WANT to be dependent on EU aid, or Turkish aid. We want to be able to stand on our own feet economicaly - and can ONLY happen if we are allowed direct flights to the north and can develop out torism trade. |
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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8938
Location: London/Cyprus
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| erolz wrote: |
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
I am still confused about the financial aid...
Are there any conditions attached to getting that money???
Or to put it in another way,what obligations would Talat have if he accepts that money??? |
There are no conditions on the aid. It is insginifcant. It represent a one of payement that is about 1/3rd to 1/4 of what Turkey gives the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus EVERY YEAR - and thats without and charging for the miliatry presense here. We do not want AID. We do not WANT to be dependent on EU aid, or Turkish aid. We want to be able to stand on our own feet economicaly - and can ONLY happen if we are allowed direct flights to the north and can develop out torism trade. |
HEAR, HEAR...we are not beggers and never will be. |
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MicAtCyp
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 313
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| Birkibrisli wrote: |
What is the condition for getting the financial aid (139M euros)?
Is there a condition? |
No condition.Those money were promised by the EU as specific help that would go to the Turkish Cypriots if the Cyprus problem was solved. (i.e if both sides would say yes to referendum) After the Greek Cypriots said No in the referendum Paps proposed that those money be given to the Turkish Cypriots anyway. And EU accepted. By the way it is not 139M, it is about 260M. 120M are already lost, but Paps licked some asses in the EU and the Turkish Cypriots are going to get those 120M too.
The Turkish Cypriots say , "ha its nothing Turkey gives us a lot more". Yes Turkey gives you a lot more my friends, but you pay a price for that, and I really wonder what percentage of that "much more" ends up to your pockets and what percentage goes to secret bank accounts in Switzerland. |
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MicAtCyp
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 313
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| brother wrote: |
| HEAR, HEAR...we are not beggers and never will be. |
Brother Turkey gives you money.Did you ask the mainland Turks what do they think of you? Birkibrisli was polite enough not to mention anything about it from his counteracts with mainland Turks. Send him a PM and he will explain you. |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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MicAtCyp
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 313
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| Erol wrote: |
| and can ONLY happen if we are allowed direct flights to the north and can develop out torism trade. |
Tourism on stolen Greek Cypriot hotels and others built on stolen Greek Cypriot land you mean, and others that will be built on stolen Greek Cypriot land you mean, and holiday homes built and sold for peanuts to the foreigners on stolen Greek Cypriot land you mean.
Much to my regret you can have direct flights at L/ca Airport,and much to my delight you refuse.
Go on like that Erol.Continue! Also please by all means turn down the deal! |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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Erol,
The EU promised to end isolation. It did not promise to open up the airports because these are governed by international agreements. The EU cannot 'promise' to do this. This is under the juristiction of the Republic of Cyprus.
You have to realise that Cyprus has effectivelly called the bluff of everybody in the EU by telling Austria to decouple the aid and trade and put it to a vote. NOBODY VOTED AGAINST! Despite Turkey banging tables! At the same time Cyprus has trashed Turkeys '10-point' rehash.
The Turkish Cypriot's can freely trade with the south and the rest of the EU if they want. It is the authorities in the north that refuse to do so. Just like the Turkish Cypriot's were stopping their own people working with Greek Cypriot's in the 1960's they are doing the same now.
The doors are open Erol, but you continue to bang on the door that has been concreted over by the actions of Turkey. I am sorry to say that backward thinking and backward actions will simply not get you anywhere.
Take advantage of the opportunities that present you as a community rather than throwing them back in the faces of everyone. Gradually the sympathy that the Turkish Cypriot's gained is being erroded and once again your fate is placed in the hands of others! Incredible really - you just never learn the lessons. |
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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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| MicAtCyp wrote: |
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
What is the condition for getting the financial aid (139M euros)?
Is there a condition? |
No condition. |
A small condition is that it must be used for infrastructure projects. |
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