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Bullika
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 3025
Location: World
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| Birkibrisli wrote: |
| Quote: |
So they really pronounce it in some regions as 'Sagha' or Saga' (g with accent)??
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You bet...
"Kash defa dedim saga,oturma bre ogle" is pure Baflica.Notice how oyle becomes ogle (again with hard g)...And ch becomes sh...
Oyle oturmamani kach defa soyledim,canikom... 
(Istanbul Turkcesi!)
There is no end to this you realise,memo |
So is it Sagha or Sağa???? |
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Birkibrisli
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Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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is that Sogram -g with an accent? I havent come acrossd this one yet.
Hapriga or Havriga, I havent heard of this, I looked in a Greek dictionary but couldnt find its origin there. It may be Cypriot Greek? or just a change in prounciation.
It could also, (heres a long shot) come from Spanish. Notice how in Spanish very often F becomes H. Farina > Harina (Flour). |
Yep...sogram with an accent or sovram depending on the region...
Hapriga or havriga also depending on the region,but don't ask me what region I can't remember any longer.But I've heard all these variations with my two little ears,Memo...Mostly from old people probably no longer living  |
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Bullika
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 3025
Location: World
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| Birkibrisli wrote: |
| Quote: |
is that Sogram -g with an accent? I havent come acrossd this one yet.
Hapriga or Havriga, I havent heard of this, I looked in a Greek dictionary but couldnt find its origin there. It may be Cypriot Greek? or just a change in prounciation.
It could also, (heres a long shot) come from Spanish. Notice how in Spanish very often F becomes H. Farina > Harina (Flour). |
Yep...sogram with an accent or sovram depending on the region...
Hapriga or havriga also depending on the region,but don't ask me what region I can't remember any longer.But I've heard all these variations with my two little ears,Memo...Mostly from old people probably no longer living |
Very sad Birkibrisli, but their children are committing language suicide, that is more tragic. People dont realise the importance of something after it is dead and buried. |
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Birkibrisli
Deputy
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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| Bullika wrote: |
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
| Quote: |
So they really pronounce it in some regions as 'Sagha' or Saga' (g with accent)??
|
You bet...
"Kash defa dedim saga,oturma bre ogle" is pure Baflica.Notice how oyle becomes ogle (again with hard g)...And ch becomes sh...
Oyle oturmamani kach defa soyledim,canikom...
(Istanbul Turkcesi!)
There is no end to this you realise,memo |
So is it Sagha or Sağa???? |
You are making me work hard now Memo.I had to go to my Turkısh fonts...ıt ıs Sağa...always ğğğğğğğğğğğğğğğğğğğğ
 |
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Birkibrisli
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Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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Very sad Birkibrisli, but their children are committing language suicide, that is more tragic. People dont realise the importance of something after it is dead and buried.
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I agree,Memo...But surely someone must be doing something to preserve all this.If not, you and i and my niece will have to do it.She has a phd in language acquisition and working at METU as associate professor.
Interested? |
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Bullika
Warnings : 1
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 3025
Location: World
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| Ok I see. Not sure about its origin. Not sure why n is elided, and becomes unvoiced g, ğ. |
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Bullika
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
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| Birkibrisli wrote: |
| Quote: |
Very sad Birkibrisli, but their children are committing language suicide, that is more tragic. People dont realise the importance of something after it is dead and buried.
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I agree,Memo...But surely someone must be doing something to preserve all this.If not, you and i and my niece will have to do it.She has a phd in language acquisition and working at METU as associate professor.
Interested? |
Is she single? We would be beautiful together. |
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Bullika
Warnings : 1
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
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| Unfortuntely Birkibrisli gardash, we need more than one intelligent person, we need a whole community to reawaken. If I die tomorrow, people who will google search Kibrislica in 5 years time, may find very little to read. The only other websites apart from mine is the one by Debra Yalin and the Kibris Terimler by S Ismail. |
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Birkibrisli
Deputy
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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| Bullika wrote: |
| Unfortuntely Birkibrisli gardash, we need more than one intelligent person, we need a whole community to reawaken. If I die tomorrow, people who will google search Kibrislica in 5 years time, may find very little to read. The only other websites apart from mine is the one by Debra Yalin and the Kibris Terimler by S Ismail. |
I didn't know you had a website,Memo...
Can you post it here,and the others as well.
And yes,she is single...and very beautiful. |
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cypezokyli
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Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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memo i realy admire you for your enthousiasm!!!
ehm, i want to give my own small example - but unfortunately i have to do in greek. hope u dont mind ...
first we also chagne the verb - object:
so the "i love you" is:
so in greek it is : se agapo
in Greek Cypriot : agapo se (love you)
bc you mention people changing to islam. it could be that that had an influence on the "wrong" syntax... let me explain. i had a greek friend whose greatgrandmaother was a refuggee from turkey. ofcource she left bc she was christian and not bc she was "greek". she was so sad to leave her homeland that till the day she died she never spoke not a single word of greek!! despite the fact she was in greece, she spoke turkish for the rest of her life.
anyway this friend tried to learn some turkish, and he was so excited to find out that in turkish you put the verb at the end of the sentence. he told me : thats how my grandmother used to speak greek! thats how she used to make greek sentence, which is totally wrong. if u translate a tukish sentence word-for-word, thats how she made sentences!!
having her mother speaking only turkish to her, and being in a greek environment (and no proper education) made her speak greek with turkish grammar rules...
i cannot say that it can be generalised, but it is just an idea. |
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Birkibrisli
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Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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I Have to go now,memo...It is 1.25 am Saturday here in Oz.
To leave you with some final thoughts:
oglum is sometimes "ovlum"
bu sefer ----->bu seher
"Yedi bitirdi maraz genni dibelig..."
"Ararig bishey soyleylim genne,ama agnamaz...dushup galacak orashta"
And my favorite saying:"Atın ölümü arpadan,gaydırayım size arkadan!"
good night! |
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Birkibrisli
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Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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And a very goodnight to you to,Cypezokyli komshu!
Get memo to translate my favorite saying in my post above...I'll look forward to reading it in the morning... |
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Bullika
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 3025
Location: World
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| cypezokyli wrote: |
memo i realy admire you for your enthousiasm!!!
ehm, i want to give my own small example - but unfortunately i have to do in greek. hope u dont mind ...
first we also chagne the verb - object:
so the "i love you" is:
so in greek it is : se agapo
in Greek Cypriot : agapo se (love you)
bc you mention people changing to islam. it could be that that had an influence on the "wrong" syntax... let me explain. i had a greek friend whose greatgrandmaother was a refuggee from turkey. ofcource she left bc she was christian and not bc she was "greek". she was so sad to leave her homeland that till the day she died she never spoke not a single word of greek!! despite the fact she was in greece, she spoke turkish for the rest of her life.
anyway this friend tried to learn some turkish, and he was so excited to find out that in turkish you put the verb at the end of the sentence. he told me : thats how my grandmother used to speak greek! thats how she used to make greek sentence, which is totally wrong. if u translate a tukish sentence word-for-word, thats how she made sentences!!
having her mother speaking only turkish to her, and being in a greek environment (and no proper education) made her speak greek with turkish grammar rules...
i cannot say that it can be generalised, but it is just an idea. |
Well this is my second reply to u as I lost my first reply accidently after spending 10 minutes writing it. I m very annoyed!!!! 
Thank u for taking the time 2 write. Its very interesting what u describe. There is clearly a correlation to what I described in Cyprus and its an argument that is plausible. A person may change faith or name but language is not so easy to change. It is probably a part of ones identity that is most difficult to change. When I speak Turkish, French, German sometimes the structure I unconsciously adopt is English, as English is my mother tongue, the language I grew up speaking and the first words I uttered.
i know some Greek refugees from Pontus whom I met who speak only Turkish. In Georgia there is a large community of some half a million Turkish speaking Greeks. However, according to some historians they are not Greek as in Ionian Greeks but in their religion. Being Greek u see in IMO is like being Jewish, your religion Greek Orthodoxy defines you as a Greek. Because of this attitude among Greeks, almost a rejection of other religions that it was easy for Muslim Greeks to become Turkish. If it was possible to be a Greek muslim then the Cretan Muslims would not be living all over Turkey now, but would still be in Greece.
Likewise if Turks tolerated Orthodox Christians in their ranks then Caramania would still be inhabited by Orthodox Christians / Greeks if you prefer.
As for the syntactic structure in Kypriaka, we obviously must have got it from Cypriot Greek which is the older dialect. I m very interested, because if Cypriot Greek has this structure like Cypriot Turkish, as you mention but mainland Greek and Turkish do not. Then where did Cypriot Greek get it from?
I feel we have to look even further back in Cyprus' history, to the period of Lusignan or Venetian rule, perhaps that is when it entered the language.
Or maybe (this is a long shot) it is somehow linked to the language spoken before the Mycenaeans, that of the Chiroikhitians. |
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Bullika
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Birkibrisli
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Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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Thanks for those links,memo.
I will check them out in detail later.
As to my niece,well...who knows?if you play your cards right,and we get to work on Gibrizlica together... |
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