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Settlers in Gaza and relations to our problem
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antonis

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:19 am    Post subject: Settlers in Gaza and relations to our problem Reply with quote

The series of articles in the daily Greek Cypriot press related to the latest tragic events has diverted the attention from another serious development in our neighbouring region.

Ariel Sharon, the "boucher de Beyrouth", has come to the same conclusion that many of his predecessors did: the settlements in the Gaza strip and the West Bank have to be destroyed, and the people that were sent to "colonize" these occupied areas should leave, as an important step towards peace. The pictures that go around the world are shocking but soon one realizes that it is policies doomed to bring disaster that brought this outcome and sooner or later this was to be expected.

In our case, any settlement to the Cyprus issue may involve, to some degree, a removal of some of the settlers that Turkey sent over to fill in the empty Greek Cypriot houses. I am not sure that this removal will come any easier and what mechanisms will be used, and who is going to undertake this operation. I would tend to think that Turkish Cypriots or Greek Cypriots having to move out from houses they don't own will do that without a major complaint, given that another arrangement has been agreed on (say relocation). With settlers the situation will be different.

Do you think there's any resemblance between what we see happening now in the Gaza area and what may have to happen in Cyprus in the future?
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magikthrill

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

don't forget that Israel got plenty of $$$$ from the USA to compensate the thieves that were removed for a lot more than what their property was worth.
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Mete
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Do you think there's any resemblance between what we see happening now in the Gaza area and what may have to happen in Cyprus in the future?

I think there's a huge resemblance. The recent developments in Israel/Palestine showed us that you cannot simply grab someone else's land and claim that it's yours even after living on that land for 40 years.

We'll have a similar scenario in the north with a solution but I think it won't be as dramatic as Israel. Most Turkish Cypriots accept the fact that they might need to move in a solution. Settlers might be more problematic but as you said with enough incentives, they'll move.

It's a shame that we don't see any scientific case studies on such a possible development. We have the Annan plan and it's outlined in very detail there which land will be given to Greek Cypriots. I wish someone could do a case study about how many Turkish Cypriots/Turks will need to be moved in a future solution, how much it will cost and all that so we start getting ready socially and economically. But I guess planning is not a Cypriot trait. Smile
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Dhavlos
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But I guess planning is not a Cypriot trait.



definately not!

the settlers should nto be treated as Turkish Cypriots in an eventual solution.

If they maried Turkish Cypriot then they should become Turkish Cypriots also, if they havent, then they should be given work permits, and apply for cypriot citizenship throu the right channels
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brother
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the end i believe in the full right of return for all cypriots but where a Greek Cypriot/Turkish Cypriot has developed the land should be offered compensation to leave and if they do not want to then the original legal owner must be offered equivalent land in the same location or full monetary compensation, which ever they choose.Remember weather they are Turkish Cypriot or Greek Cypriot they are our people and we must try very hard to be sensitive to all our peoples concerns.
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antonis

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots living in houses they don't legally own would have less of a problem moving "somewhere else", because that "somewhere else" they deserve to have, as at some point in the past they legally owned something on this island.

Settlers, on the other hand, have no such "somewhere else" in Cyprus, apart perhaps in Turkey, minus some rare cases that have actually bought a place to live that was pre-1974 Turkish Cypriot owned. It is these people that I wanted to compare with the situation in Israel. Some of these settlers were immigrants from around the world, and were sent to live in the occupied areas...

My belief is that all these houses that are now being built in the occupied areas and which are being sold to the British and other foreigners, are going to house people that will have to relocate as a result of a possible solution. So eventually a good %age of Greek Cypriot refugees may return to their houses, which may require serious repairs etc, whereas the Turkish Cypriots will move to a newer house. The most miserable case is Famagusta, that Turkey still thinks is of bargaining value...
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detailer

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turkey brought those people, so Turkey is the one who is responsile of finding a solution/source for their relocation/departure. But this problem can lead us to see very sad scenes I am afraid. They can be given long term debits for the newly build hosues etc. Again where is the money?
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antonis

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detailer wrote:
Turkey brought those people, so Turkey is the one who is responsible of finding a solution/source for their relocation/departure.

Indeed this is the right dimension of the problem. The issue here is, nonetheless, that during negotiations it is the two communities that negotiate under UN "arbitration". And the Turkish Cypriot side cannot decide for Turkey during negotiations. So essentially the settlers issue becomes a problem of Cyprus. Another option is to discuss this issue in 4-way (or 5-way if you count GB in) negotiations, which however are not acceptable by the Greek Cypriot side. What Tassos wants is Republic of Cyprus-Turkey negotiations on the issues of settlers, guarantees and perhaps security, which may be interpreted as a move that tries to ignore Turkish Cypriots.
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detailer

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

antonis wrote:
detailer wrote:
Turkey brought those people, so Turkey is the one who is responsible of finding a solution/source for their relocation/departure.

Indeed this is the right dimension of the problem. The issue here is, nonetheless, that during negotiations it is the two communities that negotiate under UN "arbitration". And the Turkish Cypriot side cannot decide for Turkey during negotiations. So essentially the settlers issue becomes a problem of Cyprus. Another option is to discuss this issue in 4-way (or 5-way if you count GB in) negotiations, which however are not acceptable by the Greek Cypriot side. What Tassos wants is Republic of Cyprus-Turkey negotiations on the issues of settlers, guarantees and perhaps security, which may be interpreted as a move that tries to ignore Turkish Cypriots.


When it come to settlers, I understand the Greek Cypriot opinion that this should be discussed with mainly Turkey, since Turkish Cypriot simply does not have resources to compensate them.

But when it comes to Papadopulos's policy to ignore Turkish Cypriot in overall negotions, this is something which I strongly protest. This attitude is completely political and aims to downgrade Turkish Cypriot to a minority group in Cyprus. It also undermines Turkish Cypriot trust in Greek Cypriot leadership. Anyway, this is another topic.
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antonis

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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But when it comes to Papadopulos's policy to ignore Turkish Cypriot in overall negotions, this is something which I strongly protest. This attitude is completely political and aims to downgrade Turkish Cypriot to a minority group in Cyprus. It also undermines Turkish Cypriot trust in Greek Cypriot leadership.


I believe he mentioned 2-3 areas, one of which was the issue of settlers where he would like to have direct negotiations with Turkey (not the whole spectrum of issues).
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detailer

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

antonis wrote:
Quote:
But when it comes to Papadopulos's policy to ignore Turkish Cypriot in overall negotions, this is something which I strongly protest. This attitude is completely political and aims to downgrade Turkish Cypriot to a minority group in Cyprus. It also undermines Turkish Cypriot trust in Greek Cypriot leadership.


I believe he mentioned 2-3 areas, one of which was the issue of settlers where he would like to have direct negotiations with Turkey (not the whole spectrum of issues).


He is even rejecting to meet talat in social context. Turkish Cypriot does not like him anyway, he is just increasing this. He does not give an acceptable "United Cyprus" perspective to any Turkish Cypriot. Maybe Greek Cypriot like his politics, but he is enpowering the extreme ideas along Turkish Cypriot as well. I believe the situation could be different even if DISI leader was president
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antonis

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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He is even rejecting to meet talat in social context. Turkish Cypriot does not like him anyway, he is just increasing this. He does not give an acceptable "United Cyprus" perspective to any Turkish Cypriot. Maybe Greek Cypriot like his politics, but he is enpowering the extreme ideas along Turkish Cypriot as well. I believe the situation could be different even if DISI leader was president

You are right, he's way different from Clerides. My only hope is that he knows what he's doing, that he has a plan, which is unrelated to partition... definitely his approach will not bring any (gradual) changes to the Cyprus problem, but things may happen suddenly, in the same way that the opening of the checkpoints came about...
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Viewpoint
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Papadop has absolutely no Turkish Cypriot support he is seen as a negative Turk hater, he manipulates Greek Cypriots for larger local support for another term in office. Hes has no desire to solve the issue under a BBF, why should he? he is a status quo man who is benefiting the Turkish Cypriot desire for recognized partition. Another term of Papadop and we may as well kiss any positive steps taken towards solving the Cyprus issue goodbye.
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Constantinopolitis

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:14 am    Post subject: Israeli Settlers Out of Gaza –Turkish Settlers Out of Cypr Reply with quote

Israeli Settlers Out of Gaza –Turkish Settlers Out of Cyprus by Gene Rossides

August 16, 2005


The Geneva Convention of 1949, section III, article 49, prohibits colonization by an occupying power. Section III of the Geneva Convention deals with Occupied Territories. Article 49 states in its last paragraph:

“The Occupying Power shall not deport or
transfer parts of its own civilian population
into the territories it occupies.”


Today there are estimates of 8,500 Jewish settlers in occupied Gaza and 1.3 million Palestinians in Gaza. There are an estimated 250,000 Jewish settlers in the West Bank.

In Cyprus, there are estimates of 120,000 Turkish settlers in occupied Cyprus.

All the Jewish and Turkish settlers/colonists are illegal under the Geneva Convention of 1949 and should be removed.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon last year proposed the unilateral withdrawal of Jewish settlements from Gaza and a few from the West Bank. The Israeli Cabinet and Knesset (Parliament) approved the plan.

Under the Sharon plan, on August 15, 2005 it was illegal for the estimated 8,500 Israelis in the Gaza Strip to remain. On August 17, the Israeli army and police started to remove the settlers who have not left Gaza, using force if necessary. They will then destroy the homes.

Israel hopes to complete the operations by September 4, but no later than September 15. Gaza was captured 38 years ago by Israel. It has been stated that Sharon believes that quitting Gaza will “make it easier for Israel to hold on to the major West Bank settlement blocs” where most of the Jewish settlers live.

Successive U.S. administrations have long opposed the Jewish settlements in occupied territory as not in the best interests of the U.S. and Israel. President Bush has endorsed the withdrawal stating: “ The disengagement is, I think, a part of making Israel more secure and peaceful.”

Unfortunately, successive U.S. administrations, including the Bush administration, have not been forthright regarding the illegal Turkish settlers/colonists in Cyprus. They have not stated publicly that they are illegal and must be removed.

The Bush administration’s position has been and is worse than previous administrations in that it supported the flawed Annan Plan, primarily instigated by Britain, which would have allowed most of the 120,000 illegal Turkish settlers to remain in Cyprus and to keep the Greek Cypriot homes and properties they were illegally given by Turkey.

On April 1, 2005, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice addressed the 99th annual meeting of the American Society of International Law and stated:

“ One of history's clearest lessons is that America is safer and the world is more secure whenever and wherever freedom prevails. I've said that the time for diplomacy is now. One of the pillars of that diplomacy is our strong belief that international law is vital and a powerful force in the search for freedom. The United States has been and will continue to be the world's strongest voice for the development and defense of international legal norms….

America is a country of laws. When we observe our treaty and other international commitments, our country -- other countries are more willing too to cooperate with us and we have a better chance of persuading them to live up to their own commitments. And so when we respect our international legal obligations and support an international system based on the rule of law, we do the work of making the world a better place, but also a safer and more secure place for America. “

When is the U.S., in its own self-interest, going to apply the rule of law to Turkey?

When is the U.S., in its own self-interest, going to stop the double standard on the application of the rule of law to Turkey?

When is the U.S., in its own self-interest, going to stop the appeasement of Turkey’s aggression against Cyprus and occupation of 37.3 % of Cyprus.

A good start would be for Secretary Rice to publicly call for the removal of the illegal Turkish settlers from Cyprus.

The illegal Jewish settlers should be removed from Gaza and the West Bank and the illegal Turkish settlers should be removed from Cyprus.


Gene Rossides, is President of the American
Hellenic Institute and former Assistant
Secretary of the U.S. Treasury.
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cannedmoose
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be helpful if you could provide a link to the article rather than posting the whole thing. It would also help to identify the source, as some publications are more credible than others...
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