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boomerang
Warnings : 1
Deputy
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Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:11 am Post subject: The Annan Plan

For the Turkish Compatriots: 1...Why do you think the majority of people voted NO to the Annan plan? 2...and do yourselves find this a fair and a functional plan? thanks

boomerang
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Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:04 am Post subject:

A lot of reads and no replies...is this a taboo topic?

erolz

Site Admin

Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:17 am Post subject: Re: The Annan Plan

boomerang wrote:

For the Turkish Compatriots:

1...Why do you think the majority of people voted NO to the Annan plan?

2...and do yourselves find this a fair and a functional plan?

thanks

There is no taboo on this subject.

I think their are many reasons why a majority of Greek Cypriot voted no to the plan but in short they voted no to it because they did not think it was good enough for them to say yes to.

I think the Annan plan could have 'worked' (re united Cyprus) provided there was sufficent good will and determination on both sides, just as I think the 60's agreements could have 'worked' under such conditions. As to if either of these things is 'fair', thats an arbitary question from where I sit. Certainly I understand why many Greek Cypriot did not think the plan was 'fair'. There were also Turkish Cypriot who thought that way too, though not in the same numbers % wise.

I personaly voted no to the Annan plan, not on the basis of 'fairness' but on the basis of 'do I think it will work'. I personally did not think it would work, as I did not believe their was sufficent will to make it work and I felt it was a 'rushed' solution designed more to meet the worlds 'need' to 'tick the box saying cyprus problem solved' than designed to give Cypriots the best framework in which to solve their differences and re unite their island.

cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
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Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5358
Location: National Forest, England

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:42 am Post subject:

Suggest you take a look at Alex L's surveys, they'll give you a good idea... http://www.cypruspolls.org/

boomerang
Warnings : 1
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Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:44 am Post subject:

cannedmoose wrote:

Suggest you take a look at Alex L's surveys, they'll give you a good idea...

http://www.cypruspolls.org/

CannedMoose, an interesting survey...I need time to read the whole lot

Crash Test Dummy
Warnings : 3
Ministerial

Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 4941
Location: London(ish)

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:23 pm Post subject:

boom the survey result are quite surprising. some questions i thought would be definate yes/no and i found the opposite. once again good work Alex

Ixtanbul

Villager

Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Turkey

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:28 am Post subject:

Hey Boom

Quote:

Why do you think the majority of people voted NO to the Annan plan?

Cause most people actually don't want unification.

Quote:

and do yourselves find this a fair and a functional plan?

Before i read the plan and with just what i heard from the news i thought the plan was unfair on Greek Cypriots but after i read the plan i saw that it was unfair on Turkish Cypriots. Leaving Turkish Cypriots with just 6% of land i found unacceptable. But then again if Turkish Cypriots were ready to make such sacrifices for unification then there isn't much to object to. Also when you think of the fact that the demands of both sides are extremely different then you'll see that the Annan plan actually is a reasonable plan...

boomerang
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Joined: 20 Aug 2005
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Location: Melbourne

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:39 am Post subject:

1453 wrote:

Hey Boom

Quote:

Why do you think the majority of people voted NO to the Annan plan?

Cause most people actually don't want unification.

Quote:

and do yourselves find this a fair and a functional plan?

Hey 1453 we meet again...Haven't heard from you in a while...How are you?...Exam time?

Re-Annan plan, where does it say the Turkish Cypriot will only be left with 6% o f the land.

I am still reading the survey.

Ixtanbul

Villager

Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Turkey

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:47 am Post subject:

Quote:

Hey 1453 we meet again...Haven't heard from you in a while...Exam time?

Re-Annan plan, where does it say the Turkish Cypriot will only be left with 6% o f the land.

I am still reading the survey.

I went on holiday for a week but had to come back to Ankara cause i got stuff to do. Anyway i liked this forum a lot, it's very level-headed. I enjoy reading the Cypriots thoughts on the issue cause usually everyone but Cypriots talk on the Cyprus issue.

It doesn't say Turkish Cypriots will be left with 6% in the actual plan but after calculations they said Turkish Cypriots were left with 6% of the land. You know after the whole settlment exchange period is finished which is going to take over 10 years...

boomerang
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Deputy

Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:15 am Post subject:

Quote:

It doesn't say Turkish Cypriots will be left with 6% in the actual plan but after calculations they said Turkish Cypriots were left with 6% of the land. You know after the whole settlment exchange period is finished which is going to take over 10 years...

Yes the good old holidays...Do anything special?...met any ladies?...

Re the 6%...I do not know how you got this info because I can't find any ref to it...I can't see how this is possible.

Yes this forum seems to be ok...a lot of fellow Cypriots here and I am always interested knowing everything about Cyprus.

brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin

Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8938
Location: London/Cyprus

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:04 pm Post subject:

Hi 1453 and welcome to the forum.

Alexandros Lordos

Site Admin

Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 324
Location: Cyprus/Greece

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:10 pm Post subject:

1453 wrote:

Leaving Turkish Cypriots with just 6% of land i found unacceptable.

I think you mean ... giving up 6% of the land?

According to the Annan Plan, the Turkish Cypriots would hand back 6% of Cyprus to the Greek Cypriots, thus the total territory they control would go down from 34% of Cyprus, which they have now, to 28% of Cyprus, under the Annan Plan.

cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
Moderator

Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5358
Location: National Forest, England

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject:

Exactly, I don't recall anything in the Annan Plan reducing the Turkish Cypriot component state to such a small area... as Alexandros said, it was 28-and-a-bit percent, certainly not six.

Ixtanbul

Villager

Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Turkey

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject:

Thanx for the welcome brother.

---

About the 6% land being left for the Turkish Cypriot'S;

Quote:

THE LAND LEFT FOR TURKS

The land left to the Turks comprise only of 6,5 % of the Island.
18. According to the Annan Plan, our lands will fall from 3.241.68 km2 to 2.559.12 km2.
19. According to the Annan Plan, 682.56 km2 of our land will be surrendered to the Greeks.
20. In case the 4th and 5th Annan Plan is adopted, 1050 km2 land will pass to the Greeks, there will be a 815 km2 decrease at the Cyrus Turk constitutor state, the remaining area will be green line.
21. Can there be a state and homeland without land? According to the Plan, the land ratio to be left at the Turks is foreseen as 28.6 % of the total area of the Island. However, this does not reflect the actual situation.

The region being a boundary region and left to the Greeks 2.64 %
The region given to the Greeks 2.92 %
Church properties present in Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus 1 %
Forests, mountains, pastures, hills, ponds and river areas without deed 11 %
+ -----------
The ratio of land seeming to be at Turks but actually not belonging to them 17.56 %

· The land left for the possession of Turks will only be 11.04 % of the complete Island
· 5 % of this ratio is already the deeded possession of the Turks. In this case, the area left to the Turks according to the Plan will only be 6.5 %. Thus, the land that can be utilized by the Turks for agricultural purposes will only be 6.5 %.
22.

Land in Cyprus not suitable for being cultivated 706.20 km2
The land to be given to the migrating Greeks 230.00 km2
The land of the Greeks living in Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus 8.30 km2
The land of the Maronits in Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus 32.10 km2
The land belonging to the Churches and Monasteries in Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus 23.17 km2
The land to be left to the Greeks to the south of Gazi Magosa Castle 2.08 km2
The land to be given to Greeks in Lefkoşe 0.53 km2
+ -----------
The lands seeming to be in the hands of Turks but are actually not: 1002.38 km2

In this case, the land left to the Turks is only 1556.74 km2 and half of this amount is already deeded possession.
23. In the Island, 330 thousand 200 hectares land belong to the Greeks, 101 thousand 500 hectares land belong to the Turks: of the land of the Turks, 60 thousand hectares is in the south and 40 thousand hectares is in the north. With this Plan, the Turks lose 6.5 % of their lands. The Turks are left obliged to be tenants on the properties of the Greeks.

http://www.kibris.gen.tr/english/articles/articles26.html

It's a nationalist site but other then that during the referendum campaigns "6% of the island being left for Turkish Cypriot'S" was also mentioned.

Alexandros Lordos

Site Admin

Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 324
Location: Cyprus/Greece

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject:

1453 wrote:

Thanx for the welcome brother.

---

About the 6% land being left for the Turkish Cypriot'S;

Quote:

It's a nationalist site but other then that during the referendum campaigns "6% of the island being left for Turkish Cypriot'S" was also mentioned.

Ok, now I see what you are trying to say.

Putting detailed calculations aside, the formula is quite simple:

- Turkish Cypriots would be able to keep all the land they owned in the north before 1974 (ofcourse!)
- Turkish Cypriots would also be able to exchange all the property they owned in the south before 1974, with equivalent property in the north.
- Turkish Cypriots would also be able to keep houses they built on Greek Cypriot land, above and beyond the exchange system mentioned above.

In other words, individual Turkish Cypriots would have as much property in the north as they had in Cyprus overall before 1974, plus a little bit more for houses/factories/office blocks etc. built on Greek Cypriot land since 1974.

What the precise percent is, whether it is 6% of the total land of Cyprus, or 20% of the total privately owned land of Cyprus, or whatever else, is an academic issue. They would own as much as they owned before 1974, plus something more, and this is fair - if not generous.

Most Turkish Cypriots could see that the plan was a "good deal" for them, and this is why they voted Yes.

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