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Dhavlos
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| I am also unaware of this as well. For one thing I had no idea these countries spoke Turkish. Aren't they though past Armenia making it hard for them to be a unitary country w/ Turkey. If not why arent they? |
i dont think it is that they speak turkish, but more that they have turkic origins in their language...like latin being the basis for french/spanish etc...if you see what i mean.
THe megali idea was really just an early 20thcentuary idea, as with many ideas in the 'nation-building stage' between the world wars and even right up to the spliting of yugoslavia. I think the whole idea would ahve worked, that was if the 'greek' speaking peoples occupied one land area, directly next to greece, rather than spread over asia minor, and even egypt (alexandria i think).
When i typed in 'greater turkey' and 'greater greece/megali idea' into search engines, the latter was the only one that came up with 'relevent' stuff(although Turkey seems to have a growing fascist movement  -MHP/grey wolves?)
The megali idea finished, i beleive in 1974. However, its remains can still be seen, as such, with the continued division of cyprus. |
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detailer
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| on the contrary when Turkey was founded there were LIMITED places with Turkish speaking populations. the only places the Turks could have wanted to unite with (using the basis the Greeks did) were Thrace and Cyprus. The Turkish Thracans though were allowed to remain in their homeland because they saw that more important then becoming refugees to be controlled by someone who speaks Turkish rather than Greek. |
No this is simply wrong. In 1920, there have been turkish speaking population almost everywhere in Grece, including islands rhodes, lesvos as well (except Mora which was "cleaned" sucessfully 100 years before).
You also miss something here, when the modern Turkey was established millions and millions of people came from balkan states(all of them). Those people were muslims but not necessarily turkish speaking. Some of those muslims also stayed in their places(bosnians, muslim albanians, macedonians etc.). So the people in modern Turkey are relatives with those people. Therefore, if the modern Turkey had a policy of expansion, it would have more than enough arguments. |
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detailer
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| i dont think it is that they speak turkish, but more that they have turkic origins in their language...like latin being the basis for french/spanish etc...if you see what i mean. |
No, wrong information. An azeri and a Turkish Cypriot can understand each other very easily. But there have a strong soviet propaganda to make those people believe "you are not turkish, you are azeri bla bla bla...."
If you look at the "azeri tourist information" brochures in the soviet times, it always starts with "how they are different from Turkish". If there wasn't a strong connection, soviets wouldnt mind that much, isnt' it?  |
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Bananiot
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Detailer wrote
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| except Mora which was "cleaned" successfully 100 years before |
care to elaborate on this Detailer? I have never heard of Mora, could it be the Peloponnese? |
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detailer
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| Bananiot wrote: |
Detailer wrote
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| except Mora which was "cleaned" successfully 100 years before |
care to elaborate on this Detailer? I have never heard of Mora, could it be the Peloponnese? |
I think you are right, they call it "mora" in turkish. But this sould be a greek word as well |
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Bananiot
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| Right, its Morias in Greek (the accent on the a). |
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Dhavlos
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No, wrong information. An azeri and a Turkish Cypriot can understand each other very easily. But there have a strong soviet propaganda to make those people believe "you are not turkish, you are azeri bla bla bla...."
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i stand corrected....what i said was just a guess anyway.
Are the languages like dialects(like say American english compard to British english)...or actually the same? just interested to know. |
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magikthrill
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
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| detailer wrote: |
No this is simply wrong. In 1920, there have been turkish speaking population almost everywhere in Grece, including islands rhodes, lesvos as well (except Mora which was "cleaned" sucessfully 100 years before).
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detailer, you are referring to the Dodecanese...
The Dodecanese did not belong to Greece at this time. They belonged to Italy and were annexed to Greece after WWII if I'm not mistaken. I don't think Turkey wanted any trouble with the Italians as well. that could have resulted in a potential Greco-Italian alliance and would have definitely harmed the Turks. |
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detailer
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| magikthrill wrote: |
| detailer wrote: |
No this is simply wrong. In 1920, there have been turkish speaking population almost everywhere in Grece, including islands rhodes, lesvos as well (except Mora which was "cleaned" sucessfully 100 years before).
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detailer, you are referring to the Dodecanese...
The Dodecanese did not belong to Greece at this time. They belonged to Italy and were annexed to Greece after WWII if I'm not mistaken. I don't think Turkey wanted any trouble with the Italians as well. that could have resulted in a potential Greco-Italian alliance and would have definitely harmed the Turks. |
I am talking about 1821... |
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magikthrill
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| detailer wrote: |
No this is simply wrong. In 1920, there have been turkish speaking population almost everywhere in Grece, including islands rhodes, lesvos as well (except Mora which was "cleaned" sucessfully 100 years before).
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I am talking about 1821... |
So then I'm guessing that was a typo? Guess you got 2 numbers wrong with that one... |
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detailer
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| You didnt get it. 1821 was the date where virtually all turkish disappeared in mora(pelopenise). |
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Bananiot
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In fact, atrocities were committed by the rebels against the Turkish population of Morias. The story of Tripolitsa is well documented where the victorious Greeks, led by Kolokotronis, performed what may be described as a genocide. Even the Jewish population of Tripolitsa was not spared. I do not know why the Jews were killed, may be because they collaborated with the Turks, or perhaps because they were held responsible for the killing of ... Jesus.
Some people may be shocked by this because the Greeks are not supposed to do such things. It appears that all people are perfectly capable of genocides, given the right circumstances. Even great countries like the USA have done it in Vietnam (Mey Lain) ... |
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detailer
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My point in writing those things is of course not blame the greeks history. The point was to suggest that there is also strong heritage of turkish in the balkans like greeks have in anotolia.
If someone has expansionst mentality, there are always enough arguements for that. |
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cannedmoose
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I think the massacre of settled Ottomans in Morea is accepted by most historians. Whether it totalled 50,000 is another question, but certainly many thousands of people died either as a result of direct massacre, or as a consequence of disease, poisoning or starvation resulting from being beseiged.
I think the fact that this occurred in this region of Greece is unsurprising and wasn't mirrored exactly across the rest of the country. The people of the region had never really been conquered or occupied, they had resisted both Frankish and Ottoman domination for centuries and were reknowned as a people easily roused to conflict, whether amongst themselves or against outsiders... some of which must stem back to their Spartan heritage 
Therefore, for the Ottomans, Morea had always been a 'wild west'. Yet, whilst the massacre of Ottoman settlers in Morea cannot be countenanced, it is also true that when the Ottoman army finally swept across the peninsula in 1825, they did exact a terrible vengeance on the Greek population thereof.
Apparently, even after Greek independence the residents of Morea continued to fight against the new regime. Not sure what they're like today, but certainly sounds like an interesting history. |
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brother
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| Must look that up, sounds like some fascinating reading imo. |
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