| Author |
Message |
boomerang
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne
|
|
| erolz wrote: |
| boomerang wrote: |
| As far as the UN calling for an end to the Turkish Cypriot isolation...there is no UN resolution on this...Just the word of Annan... |
No there is no resolution on this but it is the current 'offical line' from the UN re North Cyprus (and the EU for that matter).
| boomerang wrote: |
And in case you have forgotten there numerous UN resolutions against Turkey to get out of Cyprus, but no one is listening...Turkey seems to be suffering from selective hearing. |
I am reasonably aware of the many UN resolutions relating to Cyprus both pre 74 and post 74 and of those which Turkey refuses to accept. I am still not so sure however on why you think Azerbijan deciding to allow direct flights to and from North Cyprus is 'playing with fire' for Azerbijan? |
Official line from the UN is Annan's statements...Not endorsed as a resolution as you kindly pointed out...Some in the EU have made statements, mainly the British as to ending the isolation, but the EU has to follow UN resolutions.
As far as Azerbijan is concerned...they are endorcing a policy that goes against UN resolutions...How would they feel if a lot of countries tread Karabakh as they, Azerbijan, is doing to the occupied territories in Cyprus...Would they just sit down and take it and say it's ok?...the question is why do to others something that you do not like done to your self?...You do not thnk that will have a negative impact on Azerbijan?...What do you think the Azeris will say if a lot of countries started investing in Karabakh...Would they start saying it's unfair or start pulling out UN resolutions?
You can't have it both ways. |
|
| Back to top |
|
erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
|
|
| boomerang wrote: |
| Official line from the UN is Annan's statements...Not endorsed as a resolution as you kindly pointed out...Some in the EU have made statements, mainly the British as to ending the isolation, but the EU has to follow UN resolutions. |
Well as I see / understand it the Secretary General has called on all Nations to work towards ending the isolation of Northern Cyprus. This might not mean much to you (or anyone else) but I suspect if he had called on all nations to work towards increasing the isolation of North Cyprus you might think differently? As for the EU it is not just a 'few countries' that are calling for an end to isolation of the North it is the EU commision - apretty powerful body within the EU structures as understand it.
| boomerang wrote: |
As far as Azerbijan is concerned...they are endorcing a policy that goes against UN resolutions...How would they feel if a lot of countries tread Karabakh as they, Azerbijan, is doing to the occupied territories in Cyprus...Would they just sit down and take it and say it's ok?...the question is why do to others something that you do not like done to your self?...You do not thnk that will have a negative impact on Azerbijan?...What do you think the Azeris will say if a lot of countries started investing in Karabakh...Would they start saying it's unfair or start pulling out UN resolutions?
You can't have it both ways. |
The hypocrasy or otherwise of Azerbijans position is a different matter as I see it. The question is will this decision damage Azerbijan or not. I am still not sure why you think that it definately will damage them? Do you think any countries that are important trading partners with them will reduce such trade because of this decsion, or it will cause a deterioration in relationships? |
|
| Back to top |
|
magikthrill
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 631
|
|
| erolz wrote: |
As for the EU it is not just a 'few countries' that are calling for an end to isolation of the North it is the EU commision - apretty powerful body within the EU structures as understand it.
|
No it is not just a few oucntires you are right. It is the entire union, part of which is the Republic of Cyprus. However, the way in which the isolation is ended is a completely different matter. I'm sure the Republic of Cyprus also calls for an end of the isolation - by means of end of occupation. Somehow though I dont think the Turkish Cypriot care too much for this so they choose isolation instead. |
|
| Back to top |
|
brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8938
Location: London/Cyprus
|
|
| Quote: |
| No it is not just a few oucntires you are right. It is the entire union, part of which is the Republic of Cyprus. However, the way in which the isolation is ended is a completely different matter. I'm sure the Republic of Cyprus also calls for an end of the isolation - by means of end of occupation. Somehow though I dont think the Turkish Cypriot care too much for this so they choose isolation instead. |
MT, put yourself in the place of Turkish Cypriot and tell me if you would accept what the Republic of Cyprus is trying to do, my guess is you would not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
magikthrill
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 631
|
|
| brother im not a Turkish Cypriot and im not even a Greek Cypriot really. so i cant tell you. the way i see it is that peoples land is being held hostage until Turkish Cypriots can have their own little conquered zone. until then Greek Cypriots move on w/out land and Turkish Cypriots move on w/out money. |
|
| Back to top |
|
brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8938
Location: London/Cyprus
|
|
| MT you are partially Greek Cypriot and even if you was an american you still can put yourself in that position to better understand the people, i am not asking miracles off you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
boomerang
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne
|
|
| Quote: |
| Well as I see / understand it the Secretary General has called on all Nations to work towards ending the isolation of Northern Cyprus. This might not mean much to you (or anyone else) but I suspect if he had called on all nations to work towards increasing the isolation of North Cyprus you might think differently? |
Again the UN is unable to solve problems and it's trying to cover the whole thing up...Can you imagine if other countries listen to that statement and took it upon themselves to solve their own conflicts? Back to the stone age...you would have flare ups all over the world...Annan is not in the position of making such statements because they are dangerous...He simply gave his thoughts to the UN, which was not voted, that means there was no ruling, just buried...Not mentioning he is there to offer only an impartial opinion or strive towards a solution...Furter more he KNEW his mighty plan would have failed...If he couldn't see it then he was simply the wrong man for the job...under the category "not smart enough for the this job".
So you see your comment about me being happy if it was the other way around was unfair...nothing to do as to what I want. Also please tell me what your thoughts of the plan were when it was anounced...My point is if the everyday person saw this how can somebody that heads the UN couldn't see it...pretyy damn huh
| Quote: |
| The hypocrasy or otherwise of Azerbijans position is a different matter as I see it. The question is will this decision damage Azerbijan or not. I am still not sure why you think that it definately will damage them? Do you think any countries that are important trading partners with them will reduce such trade because of this decsion, or it will cause a deterioration in relationships? |
The Azeris under pressure from the Turkish government buckled...We can't dispute this.
The Azeris have their own problems with the UN...may I dare and say similar to Republic of Cyprus...in the eyes of the UN occupied territories...Why on earth would you go against a UN ruling in recognising a state that is deemed illegal?...when you also have a favourable ruling from the UN, regarding your own state of affairs?...Wouldn't that work against you?...Where is the logic in this?
And as far as the Azeris and trade is concerned...Well I pressume their biggest trading partner is Turkey and therefore, no that will not affect their trade...But as far as joining the EU in the future, who knows?
After all what are they trying to achieve here...where is the gain?...and after so many years.
This is why I said
People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Last edited by boomerang on Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
|
|
| boomerang wrote: |
| So you see your comment about me being happy if it was the other way around was unfair...nothing to do as to what I want. |
If my comment seemed unfair then I appologise.
| boomerang wrote: |
Why on earth would you go against a UN ruling in recognising a state that is deemed illegal |
But they have not recognised the Republic of Northern Cyprus. They have allowed direct flights. The two things are not the same. |
|
| Back to top |
|
boomerang
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne
|
|
| Quote: |
| But they have not recognised the Republic of Northern Cyprus. They have allowed direct flights. The two things are not the same. |
You kidding me?...after all the noises they were making?...please
Turkey is desperate in anyone to show some kind of recognition to the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus...remember the Gambia connection? |
|
| Back to top |
|
erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
|
|
| boomerang wrote: |
| Quote: |
| But they have not recognised the Republic of Northern Cyprus. They have allowed direct flights. The two things are not the same. |
You kidding me?...after all the noises they were making?...please
Turkey is desperate in anyone to show some kind of recognition to the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus...remember the Gambia connection? |
Of course Turkey and the Republic of Northern Cyprus would like others to recognise the Republic of Northern Cyprus. However let's be as accurate as we can here. What azebijan has proposed / implemented is allowing direct flights and not recognition. In terms of how this is seen at the UN, then if what they had done was recognise the Republic of Northern Cyprus the argument that this would be damaging to Azerbijan because such recognition is in direct violation of UN resolutions calling on countries to not recognise the Republic of Northern Cyprus would hold much more water (for me). However what they have actually done is allow direct flights and this is not in direct violation of UN resolutions - at least not in the same way as recognition would be. One can even argue that it is in accordance with the UN secretary general's calls on countries to ease the isolation of the Republic of Northern Cyprus. I can see how recognising the Republic of Northern Cyprus could have repercussions for a country in the UN. I do not really see how allowing direct flights has the same if any such repercussions. |
|
| Back to top |
|
boomerang
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne
|
|
| erolz wrote: |
| boomerang wrote: |
| Quote: |
| But they have not recognised the Republic of Northern Cyprus. They have allowed direct flights. The two things are not the same. |
You kidding me?...after all the noises they were making?...please
Turkey is desperate in anyone to show some kind of recognition to the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus...remember the Gambia connection? |
Of course Turkey and the Republic of Northern Cyprus would like others to recognise the Republic of Northern Cyprus. However let's be as accurate as we can here. What azebijan has proposed / implemented is allowing direct flights and not recognition. In terms of how this is seen at the UN, then if what they had done was recognise the Republic of Northern Cyprus the argument that this would be damaging to Azerbijan because such recognition is in direct violation of UN resolutions calling on countries to not recognise the Republic of Northern Cyprus would hold much more water (for me). However what they have actually done is allow direct flights and this is not in direct violation of UN resolutions - at least not in the same way as recognition would be. One can even argue that it is in accordance with the UN secretary general's calls on countries to ease the isolation of the Republic of Northern Cyprus. I can see how recognising the Republic of Northern Cyprus could have repercussions for a country in the UN. I do not really see how allowing direct flights has the same if any such repercussions. |
Man we are playing games here with words...Why on Earth would you have direct flights to somewhere if you do not recognise the state?...The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is termed illegal territory and there are UN resolutions in calling every nation not to have anything to do with it...Can you imagine if other countries started landing at Karabakh...Are the Azeris going to keep quite about it?...they are not going to complain, and loud and bitterly?...But now how can they complain?
Also we have discussed about the rhetoric and how smart Annan is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
magikthrill
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 631
|
|
| brother wrote: |
| MT you are partially Greek Cypriot and even if you was an american you still can put yourself in that position to better understand the people, i am not asking miracles off you. |
i guess if i REALLY cared about my wellbeing I would do as a Turkish Cypriot I would do my best to screw over the Republic of Cyprus by allowing me the rights as pertained per the constituion. However, if i was a Turkish Cypriot living in the north growing up thijnking that one day we will have our own zone recognized and legally then I can see why I would bypass the Republic of Cyprus and pretend it doesnt exist until one day a miracle happens. |
|
| Back to top |
|
erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
|
|
| boomerang wrote: |
Man we are playing games here with words...Why on Earth would you have direct flights to somewhere if you do not recognise the state?...The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is termed illegal territory and there are UN resolutions in calling every nation not to have anything to do with it...
|
I am sorry but this is not playing with words at all. Formal recognition of one state by another is a very specfic legal status with huge implications and once given can not be withdrawn. The real world material differences between formal recognition and things that imply recognition but do not confer it are vast - hence all the wrangling about formal recognition by Turkey of the Republic of Cyprus.
The UN resolutions do not call on other countries to 'have nothing to do with the Republic of Northern Cyprus'. You might wish that was the case but it is not - at least as far as I understand it. They call on them not to recognise it - and that has a very specific legal meaning. |
|
| Back to top |
|
boomerang
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne
|
|
| Quote: |
| hence all the wrangling about formal recognition by Turkey of the Republic of Cyprus. |
The only reason Turkey does not recognise Republic of Cyprus is because Turkey will be proven as the guilty party, the aggressor and this alone scares the living daylights out of Turkey.
| Quote: |
| You might wish that was the case but it is not |
Not good Erolz when you contuously take little snipes...It cheapens your argument...This is the second little snipe in what I wish, btw...but who is counting?
Well we are going around in circles and yes playing with words...Yes I am coming to your house tonight and I do not recognise you as the occupants...Well I guess thats the norm.
Ask yourself where was the Azeri brotherhood the last 31 years...Ask yourself as to why no other Muslim country is following the Azeri lead...
Why not come out and say Turkey is having her arrogant way by means of blackmail and extorsion...We all know this...Making excuses as to what the Azeris are doing ain't going to wash...Believe me Turkey tried via bribes, Gambia case, didn't work and now through blackmail...Who are they trying to fool? |
|
| Back to top |
|
boomerang
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne
|
|
[quote="boomerang"]
| Quote: |
| hence all the wrangling about formal recognition by Turkey of the Republic of Cyprus. |
The only reason Turkey does not recognise Republic of Cyprus is because Turkey will be proven as the guilty party, the aggressor and this alone scares the living daylights out of Turkey.
| Quote: |
| You might wish that was the case but it is not |
Not good Erolz when you contuously take little snipes...It cheapens your argument...This is the second little snipe in what I wish, btw...but who is counting?
Well we are going around in circles and yes playing with words...Yes I am coming over to your house tonight, for dinner but who the hell are you?...Well I guess thats the norm.
Ask yourself where was the Azeri brotherhood the last 31 years...Ask yourself as to why no other Muslim country is following the Azeri lead...
Why not come out and say Turkey is having her arrogant way by means of blackmail and extorsion...We all know this...Making excuses as to what the Azeris are doing ain't going to wash...Turkey tried via bribes, Gambia case, didn't work and now through blackmail...Who are they trying to fool? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Register 
Log in 
Album 
Home 
