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Alexandros Lordos
Site Admin
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 324
Location: Cyprus/Greece
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| Dhavlos wrote: |
| Or maybe the church could help fund some bi-communal projects!!!!!! |
Yes, it really should. |
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CY
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 601
Location: London/Warwick
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| Alexandros Lordos wrote: |
Cost analysis of a typical Greek Cypriot wedding:
- Wedding Dress - CYP 1000
- Florist - CYP 1000
- Photographer - CYP 800
- Reception - CYP 3000
- Wedding Dinner - CYP 7000
- Offering to the Church - CYP 50
Have I forgotten anything?  |
-Very overcrowded wedding and knowing you're gonna be bankrupt after the honeymoon.....-priceless |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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It is very interesting to see the different pictures that Alex and Bananiot have given of bishop Athanasios! Is your glass half full or half empty Bananiot?
I agree that the church should have a minimal role in the education system but being Greek and Orthodox seem to be one of the same thing. Our culture is very closely linked to church festivities and it will take time for the two to be decoupled. However, the influence of the church in Cypriot society has been gradually diminishing as the level of education has increased. This concept of the church 'brainwashing' the masses is one that may have been true 30-40 years ago but not strictly true today. |
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CY
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 601
Location: London/Warwick
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I think that over the years, religion has become less and less important for most "states" as a whole. Many European countries such as France and Italy are becoming/have become secular and so I think the diminishing of the role of the Church in Cyprus is bound to happen, as history has taught us, unless another country threatens the whole greek-cypriot population. If this were to happen then its very likely that Greek Cypriots would want to stick together and religion would therefore play a big role, as it is part of our culture at the end of the day.
However I do know that we can no longer "dismiss" religion as religious fundamentalism in the US and middle-east does seem to be strengthening. |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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| in the uk, the church still has an influence. there are plenty of catholic schools ( I went to one) for example and this was in the state sector as well. the state does not demand that religion be banished from the classroom. what it does demand is for religeous education to encompass other faiths as well. |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| in the uk, the church still has an influence. there are plenty of catholic schools ( I went to one) for example and this was in the state sector as well. the state does not demand that religion be banished from the classroom. what it does demand is for religeous education to encompass other faiths as well. |
It's true that religion plays a part in many schools in UK (or did in my day), especially in 'public' (fee paying private) schools more that state schools. In the public school I went to there were hymns in morning assembly, grace at meals and for borders, chapel on Sundays. We also had priests as teachers (latin and RE at my school, and RE meant christianity only, at least in my day).
However what is totaly different from the UK is the idea that the church of england would have any say at all over who was appointed minister of education. Education policy is set by the government and the church has no direct say in it at all. There may be clergy involved in some of the policy boards, but if they are there they are there because of their experience as teachers and not in their roles as clergy. |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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In Britain, idont think that is the case still.....i went to a CofE school, and only went to church at the begginning and end of terms. But im sure in private/independant schools, it may have a lot more influence, say if the school has a strong history.
In the parliament, i think that the church is more ideologically liberal, than their orthodox counterparts....maybe due to the political nature of theUK, or the nature of protestantism. |
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bg_turk
Deputy
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1317
Location: Bulgaria
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| I was pretty surpised when I first arrived in the UK this year. My university has a chapplin, who is traditionally a religious figure but may also assume the role of an advisor and they encourage us to take advice from him. While I do not doubt the good intetions of this person, I a bit suspicious of his christian background. I mean he teaches christians in church after all. |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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| AT my university, they cater for almost all religions.....from methodists to buddists!!!! |
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cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
Moderator
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5358
Location: National Forest, England
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| bg_turk wrote: |
| I was pretty surpised when I first arrived in the UK this year. My university has a chapplin, who is traditionally a religious figure but may also assume the role of an advisor and they encourage us to take advice from him. While I do not doubt the good intetions of this person, I a bit suspicious of his christian background. I mean he teaches christians in church after all. |
BGT, the Chaplain is a religious figure yes, but does not attempt to indoctrinate those of other faiths. If anything, they usually function as a gateway for people of other faiths to find their particular religious authorities in the area. As Dhavre said, most universities also have facilities for those of other religions or strong links with external bodies that do... for example, my university has a Muslim prayer room and both CofE and RC chaplains plus connections with local mosques, synagogues and temples. Therefore, I don't think you need to be suspicious. The CofE is not an evangelical Church anyway, so doesn't go around trying to convert like other churches do. |
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thebrix
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 526
Location: London, United Kingdom
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| erolz wrote: |
| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| in the uk, the church still has an influence. there are plenty of catholic schools ( I went to one) for example and this was in the state sector as well. the state does not demand that religion be banished from the classroom. what it does demand is for religeous education to encompass other faiths as well. |
It's true that religion plays a part in many schools in UK (or did in my day), especially in 'public' (fee paying private) schools more that state schools. In the public school I went to there were hymns in morning assembly, grace at meals and for borders, chapel on Sundays. We also had priests as teachers (latin and RE at my school, and RE meant christianity only, at least in my day).
However what is totaly different from the UK is the idea that the church of england would have any say at all over who was appointed minister of education. Education policy is set by the government and the church has no direct say in it at all. There may be clergy involved in some of the policy boards, but if they are there they are there because of their experience as teachers and not in their roles as clergy. |
It does because of the (controversial) clause in the 1944 Education Act which states that there should be an "act of worship" each day, that act - perhaps fortunately - not being defined.
My secondary school flouted it, though - there were virtually no assemblies or similar and only the annual Christmas trek to the local church that I remember! (Possible in an area which was, and still is, almost 100% white and almost 100% [notionally] Christian).
Remember, though, that there are Church of England bishops sitting in the House of Lords! Only 18 out of 700+, but a reminder that the English church and state are not separated in a legal sense, although in practice they are. (The Welsh church was disestablished in the early 20th century and the Scottish church never was formally established, although it had state patronage which led to The Disruption).
Alastair |
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Bananiot
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 1244
Location: Nicosia
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Mikkie said
| Quote: |
| It is very interesting to see the different pictures that Alex and Bananiot have given of bishop Athanasios! Is your glass half full or half empty Bananiot? |
You could be asking the same question to Alexandros but since you chose to ask me I am not going to dissapoint you. For a start, you might like to know that I am an atheist. Thus, I should not really get involved in this discussion but since the church messes with my life I think I have the right to have my views on the matter.
Going back to your question, to be honest, I am not sure what to make of it. Nevertheless, if my memory serves me right, Athanasios was questioned by some of the people that support him today. For example the Bishop of Paphos (who reserved a place in hell for us who voted yes in the referendum) was dead against Athanasios becoming a Bishop because of certain personality weaknesses. Now, it seems the saint of Paphos does not care so much of Athanasios weaknesses because he probably got the saint of Limassol to support him as the candidate for the top spot.
Thus, a glass that appeared half empty, given the circumstances, can easily become half full. |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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Bananiot,
That is fine if you are an atheist, but I just wanted to point out the stark differences between the two views.
You gave a point of view as if we have the spanish inquisition going on in Cypurs and yet Alex gave a view of a compassionate person aiming to try and help society.
Anyway, what you are talking about is the internal politics of the church which you all too readily seem to use as a means to character assasinate the clergy! |
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Bananiot
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 1244
Location: Nicosia
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| Quote: |
| Anyway, what you are talking about is the internal politics of the church which you all too readily seem to use as a means to character assassinate the clergy! |
They do not need me to do this ... character assassination. They manage quite admirably by themselves. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| thebrix wrote: |
| erolz wrote: |
| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| in the uk, the church still has an influence. there are plenty of catholic schools ( I went to one) for example and this was in the state sector as well. the state does not demand that religion be banished from the classroom. what it does demand is for religeous education to encompass other faiths as well. |
It's true that religion plays a part in many schools in UK (or did in my day), especially in 'public' (fee paying private) schools more that state schools. In the public school I went to there were hymns in morning assembly, grace at meals and for borders, chapel on Sundays. We also had priests as teachers (latin and RE at my school, and RE meant christianity only, at least in my day).
However what is totaly different from the UK is the idea that the church of england would have any say at all over who was appointed minister of education. Education policy is set by the government and the church has no direct say in it at all. There may be clergy involved in some of the policy boards, but if they are there they are there because of their experience as teachers and not in their roles as clergy. |
It does because of the (controversial) clause in the 1944 Education Act which states that there should be an "act of worship" each day, that act - perhaps fortunately - not being defined.
My secondary school flouted it, though - there were virtually no assemblies or similar and only the annual Christmas trek to the local church that I remember! (Possible in an area which was, and still is, almost 100% white and almost 100% [notionally] Christian).
Remember, though, that there are Church of England bishops sitting in the House of Lords! Only 18 out of 700+, but a reminder that the English church and state are not separated in a legal sense, although in practice they are. (The Welsh church was disestablished in the early 20th century and the Scottish church never was formally established, although it had state patronage which led to The Disruption).
Alastair |
Nothing of all you both said above sounds in any way different than the case in Cyprus. Yet, Bananiot had nothing to say against the UK, as it is usually the case with him, but he painted a picture of the situation in Cyprus that to the unaware would have classified Cyprus only third after the Khomeini and the Taliban regimes. |
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