Agreeing the History of Cyprus

Dream_Merchant · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:21 pm Post subject:

Dear dhavlos,

children, even though amazing in their nature to learn and absorb information, are mostly influenced by their immediate family and environment.

Hence, letting them 'learn' both sides of the story and expecting them to come up with a reasonable conclusion is ..well.. naive?!

Even the greatest historians have trouble sorting fact from fiction in such ambivalent and polarised scenarios. How can we expect a child to form his or her own opinion about such a distant subject?

In the best case the child will listen to the lesson and adopt the 'opinion' of his or her parents. There is very little that can be done about that.

cypezokyli · Ministerial Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 2344

it is absolutely not naive.

there is inevitably a big influence from the side of the parents, but you are ignoring the huge influence the goverment mechanism can play in changing opinions (of the parents included).

second children at very young ages, will ofcource not be forced through such dilemmas. there are also other ways of teaching history besides a chronological one.
besides, children can start with world history and learn a couple of things outside cyprus.

the controversial points can be introduced at high school level ...at the point when teenagers (hopefully still) are at the age of questioning and challanging.... even their parents.

(expressing opinions - and not just learning thinks by heart , is also part of the british national currirulum for history. so it is possible. for that to happen though, the targets of education should change)

.........
what would you propose instead ?

Dream_Merchant · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:45 pm Post subject:

getting the facts straight, teaching in a dogmatic manner and making everything else apocryphal hocus pocus?

i mean, i see the merit in what you say, but its also a very dangerous thing. kids will be hard pressed.. teenagers will be hard pressed.

we have enough pressure on the grown ups.. dont need to load it on the kids.

Dhavlos · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject:

But to be honest, when will we be able to come up with 'one' history...in the near future?

The difference between it being an invasion or intervention in 1974? children need to see why both sides exist.

And the parent thing...their parent may say soemthing, but the child may say 'but what about this that i was told in school'? (and to be honest, when did children really listen to thier parents Wink

)

In the history fo the ussr at school, we were told the differnet historical viewpoints and told to sort of make up our own minds as to what we beleived was most true. Kind of like having the thesis, antithesis and synthesis put to you, and told, these are what people think, so make your own mind up, even if you dont fit exaclty into either of the three groups.

Like cypez said, history doesnt need to be taught chronologically, infact, in the case of cyprus, most of its recent history cant be taught chronologically cos there is so much to take in! and differnet sides see it differently.

Cahit · Villager Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 9 Location: Kyrenia

All I am hearing is when did "it" start, who started "it" and who was to blame for "it".

Let's just agree that the old farts (we call our ancesters) like us were fools. I don't beleive in history anyway, I don't even believe what the newpapers said yesterday, let alone what people say happened yonks ago.

There is no Cyprus problem, the problem is long over. Time to forgive and forget.

I have friends in the north and south and I cross the border daily. I enjoy both sides of the island. Are we still not neighbours? And what's wrong with flashing your passport? Have you ever tried to get a train ticket in London on a Monday morning?

Come on chaps.....let's move on and let's not ponder too much on the past, especially if it leads us no where.

I'd like to spend the rest of my life enjoying it, not fighting and agruing.

Isn't this what makes Cypriots nice people to know?

Leave the Cyprus problem to the old farts who have nothing better to do with their miserable lives!! Very Happy

pg · Deputy Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 1485 Location: Cyprus

Dhavlos · Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:10 am Post subject:

No offense cahit, but if the problem was only political, and people hadnt lost their houses/property etc(and all the other 'hmanitarian stuff), then i would agree with you. The problem(s) need to be sorted, quick!

RudeGal · Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:56 am Post subject:

Dhavlos · Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:16 am Post subject:

yeh i see what you mean. But you cant create a politcal solution and then work one the humanitarian one.

If you sort out the humanitarian issue first, then creating a politcal solution becomes easier (it can potentially legitimise Turkish Cypriots having their own 'federated state' if the Greek Cypriot refugees dont move back when the humantiarian issue is sorted-if that makes sense- cos they would be a majority in the north.)

but i dont trust the nroths commission. It should be bicommunal, and help sort out issues on both sides of the divide. And then create a common Land registry. A common land registry in my opinion wuldsort out a lot of problems.

Cahit · Villager Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 9 Location: Kyrenia

I hope no offence to you either Dhavlos, but let me take one more bold step in what I am trying to say. The Cypriots lost "old Cyprus" at the casino. It's not fair, it may not be right but that is what happened.

The rules were down in black & white and complaining about the way things are now, is just too late.

As for the humanitarian stuff (the loss of life, land etc), let these people be paid in the same way one gets an insurance claim for any other mishaps. I'm sorry but this is the only way forward, as I see it.

Ooops! Am I gonna get a "warning" for these remarks?

SP · Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: We lost it in the casino

stavrizatz · Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject:

Cahit wrote:

Dhavlos · Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject:

dont worry cahit..no warning.! i was just trying to show that you arguement i sadly, too simplistic in my opinion.

Cahit · Villager Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 9 Location: Kyrenia

Dhavlos, you are most probably right. I do try to keep things as simple as possible...maybe this is not appropriate for the problem in question.

Confused

pg · Deputy Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 1485 Location: Cyprus

I believe Cahit has a point in that we often get stuck in arguing about the past.

You know, it goes: According to everyone you are illegal; but you hit us; not that much; yes you did; we didn't; did you not do that; yes, but; and also; but;..., ..., ...

And then we try to agree on a judgment concerning passed events, which we never do anyway. And now even worse, everyone draws the conclusion that "since I am right about the past I am also right about what the future should bring".

If we could agree to disagree about the past, and instead focus our discussion about the future on what will be best for all of us then I think we could gain a lot. Basically not use the past as arguments for the future.

In that sense I think Cahit is pointing in a good direction.