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bg_turk
Deputy
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1317
Location: Bulgaria
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Here is an interesting article about a link between the US attitude towards the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and KRNI (kurdish republic of northern iraq). The author of the article suggests that the US diplomatic manouvres towards the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus are linked to expectations that Turkey will accept and recognize a kurdish federal state in the North of Iraq.
http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=76302
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Sabah columnist Erdal Safak discusses the reasons of the Bush administration's double invitation to Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus) President Mehmet Ali Talat and Massaud Barzani to Washington D.C., in an article entitled ''Are Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and Iraqi Kurdish Federal State Put In the Same Basket?'', published on Monday
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Would Turkey accept such a deal? |
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boomerang
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne
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| All I see is more problems and bloodshed for the region |
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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8938
Location: London/Cyprus
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| boomerang wrote: |
| All I see is more problems and bloodshed for the region |
Unfortunately its what i see as well. |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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| That is why Turkish Cypriots must take control of their own destiny. Turkey, the US, UK only have their strategic interests at heart. |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| That is why Turkish Cypriots must take control of their own destiny. Turkey, the US, UK only have their strategic interests at heart. |
But Greek Cypriots wont allow this to happen, think hard about what I'm saying before you come back with the usual rhetoric. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Viewpoint wrote: |
| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| That is why Turkish Cypriots must take control of their own destiny. Turkey, the US, UK only have their strategic interests at heart. |
But Greek Cypriots wont allow this to happen, think hard about what I'm saying before you come back with the usual rhetoric. |
Viewpoint,
Is this an acknowledgement (admission) on your behalf that Turkish Cypriots -for the time being, do not hold their destiny in their own hands?
If yes, then on whose hands has your destiny fallen?
How do Greek Cypriots do not allow your destiny to be held by you?
What should they do, or what they shouldn’t do, for this thing not to occur? |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| Viewpoint wrote: |
| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| That is why Turkish Cypriots must take control of their own destiny. Turkey, the US, UK only have their strategic interests at heart. |
But Greek Cypriots wont allow this to happen, think hard about what I'm saying before you come back with the usual rhetoric. |
Viewpoint,
Is this an acknowledgement (admission) on your behalf that Turkish Cypriots -for the time being, do not hold their destiny in their own hands?
If yes, then on whose hands has your destiny fallen?
How do Greek Cypriots do not allow your destiny to be held by you?
What should they do, or what they shouldn’t do, for this thing not to occur? |
A matter of 300 million USD every year, keep up the good work with isolation!!!!! it does not work in your favor, I'm sure you can work it out Kifeas. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Viewpoint wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
| Viewpoint wrote: |
| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| That is why Turkish Cypriots must take control of their own destiny. Turkey, the US, UK only have their strategic interests at heart. |
But Greek Cypriots wont allow this to happen, think hard about what I'm saying before you come back with the usual rhetoric. |
Viewpoint,
Is this an acknowledgement (admission) on your behalf that Turkish Cypriots -for the time being, do not hold their destiny in their own hands?
If yes, then on whose hands has your destiny fallen?
How do Greek Cypriots do not allow your destiny to be held by you?
What should they do, or what they shouldn’t do, for this thing not to occur? |
A matter of 300 million USD every year, keep up the good work with isolation!!!!! it does not work in your favor, I'm sure you can work it out Kifeas. |
Ok Viewpoint, therefore you accept that the Turkish Cypriot community is totally depended and consequently its leadership's actions and freedom of choice and decision making are controlled and contained by Turkey. Is this a valid assessment?
Isolation!
How do you understand the lifting of this so-called isolation? Give me some examples which would have constituted a lifting of this isolation. |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| Viewpoint wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
| Viewpoint wrote: |
| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| That is why Turkish Cypriots must take control of their own destiny. Turkey, the US, UK only have their strategic interests at heart. |
But Greek Cypriots wont allow this to happen, think hard about what I'm saying before you come back with the usual rhetoric. |
Viewpoint,
Is this an acknowledgement (admission) on your behalf that Turkish Cypriots -for the time being, do not hold their destiny in their own hands?
If yes, then on whose hands has your destiny fallen?
How do Greek Cypriots do not allow your destiny to be held by you?
What should they do, or what they shouldn’t do, for this thing not to occur? |
A matter of 300 million USD every year, keep up the good work with isolation!!!!! it does not work in your favor, I'm sure you can work it out Kifeas. |
Ok Viewpoint, therefore you accept that the Turkish Cypriot community is totally depended and consequently its leadership's actions and freedom of choice and decision making are controlled and contained by Turkey. Is this a valid assessment?
Isolation!
How do you understand the lifting of this so-called isolation? Give me some examples which would have constituted a lifting of this isolation. |
To the first point you have made, yes to extent you are right but our good relations with Turkey which goes back many many years, we share the same opinions on many issues, this of course gives you the impression that we are controlled by Turkey and therefore cannot make our own decisions, dint forget when we sit down with Turkish officials we have a voice and can object if we wish, but you must realize we have common objectives and we trust their good intentions towards us as they exhibited in 1974 and to this day. They are have been our only ally and we will never forget this. On the other hand we realize that times have changed and that we need to stand on our own 2 feet either on our own or with Greek Cypriots. As long as Greek Cypriots are unable to accept to move forward and agree a partnership with Turkish Cypriots then we have to go it alone, life goes on and we cant wait around forever, the current status quo will bring changes in the north that Greek Cypriots will not like but will have to accept, take the last 18 months we have never seen so much attention from EU USA UK and others over the last 31 years, doesn't this indicate anything to you, please be honest and try to suppress your nationalistic speel.
Direct Flights.
Lifting of restrictions on Turkish Cypriot joining certain organizations related to trade, finance and social activities.(these can be achieved jointly)
Direct financial aid, not via Greek Cypriots.
Relaxation on direct trade with EU
More proactive and positive approach of Greek Cypriot leadership towards Turkish Cypriot community and unification.
are just a few that spring to mind. |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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| We do accept partnership with Turkish Cypriot's VP. What we don't accept is the Turkish Cypriot community not righting some of the wrongs made against us, like for us to donate properties to you for peanuts and resttricting freedom of movement indefinitely. |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| We do accept partnership with Turkish Cypriot's VP. What we don't accept is the Turkish Cypriot community not righting some of the wrongs made against us, like for us to donate properties to you for peanuts and resttricting freedom of movement indefinitely. |
Here you go again making out that we want to restrict you freedom of movement ! Where has anyone said in a settlement (Annan plan or any other) there must be permanent restrictions ofn Greek Cypriot MOVEMENT in Cyprus? Freedom of movment means being free to MOVE , not to reclaim property, not to gain residency, or component state citizenship or anything else.
You want the Turkish Cypriot community to right SOME wrongs or ALL wrongs (as you define them) ? Again the Annan plan did right SOME wrongs but not ALL wrongs. So which is that you want. SOME or ALL? |
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boomerang
Warnings : 1
Deputy
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Melbourne
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| Erol I do not think Freedom of movement is what you describe it to be...If you mean like I get in my car drive to the other site and come back, that is not freedom of movement. Thats freedom to travel...If a Cypriot is allowed to relocate in the UK why then can't he do the same in his own country? |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| boomerang wrote: |
| Erol I do not think Freedom of movement is what you describe it to be...If you mean like I get in my car drive to the other site and come back, that is not freedom of movement. Thats freedom to travel...If a Cypriot is allowed to relocate in the UK why then can't he do the same in his own country? |
Look what is getting me annoyed here is the way terms are being manipulated. Some reading mikkie2's post would be given the impression that the annan plan and other plans and the demand of Turkish Cypriot community is that there be permanent restictions on Greek Cypriot ability to MOVE in the north. To visit it, to travle their when they want as they want. That has never been the case and the impression / implication that it is is what is annoying me.
In human rights charters there is a direct link between right to movement and right to residency but they are NOT the same thing. If the problem is the permanent restriction of the right to residency then let's ay this is the problem. Let's not say it is the right to movement when this is NOT actualy a problem or the issue. It gets us no where to do this. |
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bg_turk
Deputy
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1317
Location: Bulgaria
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| boomerang wrote: |
| Erol I do not think Freedom of movement is what you describe it to be...If you mean like I get in my car drive to the other site and come back, that is not freedom of movement. Thats freedom to travel...If a Cypriot is allowed to relocate in the UK why then can't he do the same in his own country? |
If you move to the UK and you wish to legalize your stay you have to meet some requirements like speaking english for instance or having a job. I do not understand why the turkish component state should not be able to impose similar requirements. As long as Greek Cypriots who wish to have official residenship in the Turkish component state speak turkish, they are willing to follow the laws and they recognize the sovergnity of the component state without tryting to undermine it, I do not thing anybody would be able to stop them from moving. |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| We do accept partnership with Turkish Cypriot's VP. What we don't accept is the Turkish Cypriot community not righting some of the wrongs made against us, like for us to donate properties to you for peanuts and resttricting freedom of movement indefinitely. |
The majority of Turkish Cypriots do not have any problems with Freedom of movement in the sense that Greek Cypriots can come and go to the north, stay as long as they wish, rent properties, open businesses, work here. What we do have problems with and these maybe overcome with time imo is the fact of the right to vote and thus change the political representation. Do you allow Greek Cypriots the right to be vote and be elected in the North? how do stop the Greek Cypriots from becoming the majority in the north and taking all the political posts? how do we stop repetition of the 1960s? How do we ensure that Turkish Cypriots are always equally represented in the power sharing structure?
With regards to property you are right and Greek Cypriots should either get their land back if it is physically possible or they should get real immediate compensation. For those Turkish Cypriots that have exchanged land in the south for land in the north and utilized it, either the land in the south can be offered to the Greek Cypriot or sold to support a compensation fund from which Greek Cypriots will be paid. Statistical information on how many Greek Cypriots would accept compensation or want to return to the north would be very interesting as we could then Gage the size of compensation (the shortfall) and population distribution.
So my friend Turkish Cypriots do see Greek Cypriots concerns and try to address them through compromise but the current developments and atmosphere does not contribute to a union under one roof but is pushing us further and further apart. We are entrenched in the EU leverage game which is fueling even further mistrust between our communities. |
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